To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

Have a look at this case OP:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11316141/Hospital-bans-sex-assault-victim-op-female-care-request.html

Not only was the patient accused of transphobia: their surgery was cancelled.

If you mean 'is it absolutely batshit that this is happening now' then the answer is yes.

I don't actually understand why my passport needs sex or gender on it as it has my name, whether I'm he or she is irrelevant as whether I board a plane

@Brla "FFS I think it’s called". For Fuck's Sake? 😂

Your passport is not about boarding a plane.

It is about being allowed entry into a particular country.

Many countries have different rules for men and women.

Some may have separate areas in an airport or security lines for different sexes.

Your sex is a key piece of identity information.

It would be nice if it was accurate rather than made up.

You can further your understanding here

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights

https://ovarit.com

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T_rdik1VEaQ&pp=ygUcRWxhaW5lIG1pbGxlciBncmFlbWUgbGluZWhhbg%3D%3D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjDFbbTyzC0&pp=ygUcRWxhaW5lIG1pbGxlciBncmFlbWUgbGluZWhhbg%3D%3D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjDFbbTyzC0&t=8s&pp=ygUcRWxhaW5lIG1pbGxlciBncmFlbWUgbGluZWhhbg%3D%3D

and there is loads more.

Well, you could try but most NHS Trusts have bought into gender ideology and are probably more likely to tell you it is part of their inclusion policy or even suggest you are transphobic. You are not, of course, and you are quite rightly starting to see that the acceptance of the nonsense idea that people can change sex has huge negative implications for women's rights. Do read Trans and Material Girls as others have suggested.

Much harder to do face to face than to specify in writing beforehand - and remember, these are people who get a kick out of women being forced to affirm them as another "woman" so they're not likely to react in a soothing "be kind" manner. Also, dollars to donuts you'll just be told there's no one available and would you like to reschedule?

@louddumpernoise you don't need a GRC to get a passport with your desired sex marker, nor do you need a GRC to change your "sex" marker with the NHS - sounds crazy, but it's true.

My 19 year old child got it all sorted in a matter of weeks through changing their name via Deed Poll, then the NHS and the Passport Office. Bank accounts etc have followed, once they had their new deed poll name. I don't know whether my child will bother with a GRC, why go through that hassle when they have enough documentation now with their new chosen gender?!

Do not be mistaken into thinking that the 2 years necessary for a GRC is required before anyone can change formal documentation like passport, driving licence and the M or F marker in their NHS record!!!! There are legitimate workarounds for people who are intent on changing their gender.

However nice he is, he’s not a woman. And if he starts to use women’s spaces and resources, he’s not a nice man.

And it is a mental illness - or a sexual fetish …

It’s like watching someone wake up. You’ve opened your eyes OP by starting the “what if” and “but” and “how”. This is what gender critical people (mainly women) have been shouting from the rooftops since JK Rowling and Maya Forstater (and before them) but most people choose to ignore it or simply don’t see it until it’s right there in front of them.

Welcome to terf island!

Facial feminisation surgery.

He still has a penis so surely that means he is male?

To misquote Ricky Gervais, "she still has a penis."

It’s misogynistic batshittery that has status in law. We should all be protesting in the street against it. The law that governs us should be sane and rational. This is the exact opposite.

But hey ho, it’s only detrimental to women and girls so nobody gives a shit.

I think you know that's not true

It is true. The Olympic committee's requirement for being eligible for women's boxing was having passport which says you are female. This person's passport says they are female,.so they're eligible. It was in the news...

Edited to add link: 'female on their passports'

https://apnews.com/article/2024-paris-olympics-gender-boxing-d06c6e06017a535c02a2fd15cacd2e51

Have you been living under a rock? Two men competed, and won their categories, in the women’s boxing in the last Olympics on the strength of their passports alone.

At the moment, boxing won’t be a part of the 2028 games. But (assuming ‘World Boxing’ is recognised in time), the exact same issue would happen again if the IOC withdrew recognition from it and used its own “what’s stated in the passport” rule for eligibility.

At best, yo would be given another appointment, which could be in 4 months time, with no guarantee of a genuinely female hcp that time, anyhow.

I have absolutely every sympathy for trans people. Being inside a body that you feel isn’t yours must be hell.

I also have sympathy with Ricky Gervais’ point of view.

Lose the cock.

It’s not hard to understand.

BUT! Once trans women have done so they deserve the respect due to them, as women.

She is “presenting as female” and thus is able to state female in her passport. I have no issue with this.

BUT! Once trans women have done so they deserve the respect due to them, as women.

A woman is not a man without a penis!

You're interested enough in the subject to post but you don't know that two males won female boxing medals at the Olympics?

Do you doubt the claim because males boxing in female competition is so outrageous you can't believe it's true or are you just trying to spread misinformation?

Firstly, at least 95% of transwomen don't have their penis removed, so it's safe to assume any you meet won't have had that surgery.

Secondly, women aren't just men without penises. Are men who lose their penis through cancer or an industrial accident women?

Thirdly, the only way to respect someone as a woman is for the person to be a woman. Woman isn't an idea it's a biological, non optional category which you only enter by being born a girl and growing up. 'Woman' isn't an identity a male can choose, no matter what surgery he has had, any more than I can choose to be Chinese or choose to be a cat or choose to be 12. Words have meanings.

But he is not female. He is a man in a frock who probably swallows some hormone tablets and has had his features surgically rearranged a bit and can no more make himself female than I could make myself feline.

It shouldn't be. Ireland has been issuing passports, qualifications, etc in the stated gender for a very long time. The world hasn't imploded.