To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

As a novice to this issue OP you probably won't be aware, but there is a whole area for this sort of thread on Mumsnet in the feminism section. Sadly so many people have hidden the feminism topic to avoid endless trans frothing threads that people who want to impose such threads on the rest of us keep posting them in other topics for maximum traffic .

Something to consider if you have further thoughts on your husband's friend.

Is the part where we question whether passports should have facts or wishes on them the hate speech?

Or is it the part where we ask whether males are allowed to breach women's privacy and dignity in hospitals?

Please do point out the hate speech so we can all do better.

So you ARE denying Barbie’s identity, but when women say trans women are (and remain) men that’s hate speech?

You could at least try some consistency.

But as you seem to have some insight into who is ‘real’ trans and who is just an abusive man. How should women figure this out… seeing as it’s our sports, spaces, rape centres and words they have bullied their way into, it would be quite important to know which ones are ‘true trans’ and which are just abusive men, wouldn’t it?

Seriously can ye not keep the bile to feminist boards? No thanks I don't engage with individuals who don't respect the state decision to recognise preferences on gender.

It has happened for well over twenty years in Ireland and because those who are spouting hate it becomes an issue, no thanks. Can you not stay in the one board so we don't have to hide all?

They can respect but they cannot be expected to be treated as women in all scenarios.

Not all transwomen have been living in hell with ‘the wrong body’ but living in a state of arousal at the thought of being in a woman’s body. Autogynophilia.

There was nothing ambiguous about the thread title and yet you clicked on it and posted anyway rather than hide it, which would have taken less effort, and now you feel the thread has been "imposed" upon you.

Seems like you're a victim of your own sanctimony and itchy fingers.

none of these men respect or listen to women, so , no I won’t respect their batshit identity. Have a look at This never Happens and you may think again. And those of us who wish to discuss this here have every right to do so, to inform others of what many know already.

And you can but could you keep to the feminist boards so the rest of us have the option to avoid ye? Because literally a post can be about a green jumper and someone is on about trans issues. It's beyond annoying and unfair.

The title of this thread was perfectly clear so easy to avoid if you want to.

I genuinely find it interesting how posters cone to consider certain corners 'hateful' or 'toxic'.

I understand that it is deeply upsetting for people who seek to disown their natal sex and want others to perceive them as the opposite sex to that which they are. I can understand people want to help them by affirming their identities. What blows my mind is the insistence that anyone sharing reservations about this being considered hateful.

It's a basic truth that males cannot become female. Discussing this on an open forum and without reference to any individual is simply not hateful. Discussing the costs and benefits of affirming trans identities is also not hateful.

Claims are sometimes made that whilst the above, in isolation isn't hateful, the volume of posts makes it hateful. Again, this doesn't make sense as if it isn't hateful to say it once, saying it 1000 times still doesn't reflect hate.

I appreciate that people may have protective instincts and feel concerned about the concerns being raised. However, dismissing them as hate is not the best way to support trans people. This reinforces ideas that there is hate where there isn't. The reality is, there isn't full support for accepting males as females when/where their identities conflict with material reality. Most posters on Mumsnet who raise questions or concerns about this do not hate trans people and want to find solutions to enable gender non conformity. They simply want these solution to enable woman to access single sex provision that is determined by sex not gender identity.

That’s a shame you’ve unwatched. I really wanted to know more about how to identify when someone is actually trans and when someone is just claiming to be trans. Especially as you said this:

No thanks I don't engage with individuals who don't respect the state decision to recognise preferences on gender.

but then also said, in reference to Barbie Kardashian (who is recognised in Ireland as a woman), this:

So? Abusive man pretending to be trans ?

I would have liked to know more how those two opinions marry up and how it is hate speech when a woman calls a TW a man but not when you do.

Oh well. Maybe next time.

FFS I think it’s called

how fitting.

No, we won't hide away to make you feel more comfortable. You should be more inclusive and accepting of us, shouldn't you?

It's disappointing when people engage by saying they shouldn't be exposed to the hateful views and attitudes without engaging in substantive arguments.

So often, posters highlight issues with aligning material reality and subjective feelings alongside the impact these issue have on single sex provision. This is then responded to with something along the lines of, 'well I know loads of lovely trans people and you are hateful/behind the times/a bigot and I shouldn't be subjected to your views'.

I honestly think that posters want to be supportive of trans people (understandably) and feel too threatened to properly engage with the substantive points as they know, deep down, their views are built on sand. However, if they engaged, I am confident they could arrive at a place where they can both support trans people and acknowledge that sex is material and matters in life and law.

Lol. No.
OPs friend is a man, has always been a man, and will continue to be a man. That's factual. And it's not transphobic

Please would you identify which replies on this thread are not factual?

Someone did and was refused surgery in the UK

No you do not need a GRC (or any surgery) to change your passport. It's been allowed on demand since the 90s, pre the GRA.

I can assure you, an awful lot of them are doing it for fun/sexual kicks. Look up AGP. It has close ties to porn addiction and particularly a fetish for being humiliated. There is a vast amount of misogyny in this paraphilia.

Well, I do wish that were true but the toxicity coming from the transactivists side suggests that isn't likely any day soon. Don't believe me? Take a look here:
https://terfisaslur.com/

Yes.

We need to leave theses ridiculous fears at the door: they're meaningless.

A phobia is an irrational fear or strong dislike of something and it's not in the least irrational to be fearful of an obvious man pretending to be a woman.

In a medical setting, just say 'I want another nurse, please' - you don't have to give a reason.

So you're now admitting you don't even know that he still has a penis? He might not have, but just hasn't announced it publicly? Have you ever announced publicly whether YOU have a penis?

What an absolute waste of a thread!!