To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

This is incorrect. Ireland has only had legal gender recognition since 2015 and it's based on self-ID.

It was quietly slipped in with the equal marriage legislation to avoid opposition, as recommended in the Dentons document.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document

If your ideas and beliefs need a 'safe zone' (not sure AIBU has ever been called that before but hey ho), then your ideas and beliefs are built on nothing. This is MN, women are allowed opinions men don't like here.

1. He has a penis and
2. It doesn't make the slightest difference. A man without a penis is still a man.

A man has a passport that says he's a woman. He's not the only one. This is a worthwhile thread if it highlights to even one person that this is happening and how absurd it is.

No, we won't hide away to make you feel more comfortable. You should be more inclusive and accepting of us, shouldn't you?

//

See this is the thing. Women who object to men being in women's spaces and medicalising kids when there is no medical evidence this doesn't cause harm, are nasty unkind bigots and should shut up and be inclusive.

This apparently doesn't work both ways.

Women - get to the back of the queue again.

And how exactly can you be ‘inside a body that isn't yours’? Men who claim to be women are just that - men who claim to be women. They don't deserve respect for thinking they are the opposite sex. It’s just nonsense. If someone wanted to be seen as a cat, would you respect that?

How do you ‘present as female’?

Men who cut their genitals off don't magic into women.
Women aren't men without a penis.

HTH.

Couldn't agree more it's disgusting.

So someone who has had to have his genitals removed for medical reasons, such as cancer, is now a transwoman?

🙄

Grow up.

Maybe read up in BIID / BID
BID is a rare, infrequently studied condition in which there is a mismatch between the mental body image and the physical body, characterized by an intense desire for amputation or paralysis of a limb, usually a leg, or to become blind or deaf.[2]The person sometimes has a sense of sexual arousal connected with the desire for loss of a limb, movement, or sense

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_dysphoria

Do you believe that rapists should be housed in female prisons once they decide that they are, in fact, women? (which, btw, usually happens after they've been arrested)

But it’s a mental heath issue. They sent born in the wrong body because the body you’re born in is your body for better or worse.

Please point out the hate speech. The PP wasn't able to and flounced instead, but since you too find it disgusting I'm sure you will be able to point it out so we can all educate ourselves and do better.

Fucking hell how on earth are you conflating a mental health disorder which makes people want to be blind or an amputee with somebody being transgender!? It's absurd!

It is a completely ridiculous (and also potentially damaging) situation to get into when a person's sex is wrongly ascribed on their passport.

How did we get into this mess?

I’d like to know what you mean by ‘support’. Because I for one cannot support someone who claims to be the opposite sex (or neither sex) by affirming their beliefs.
I can educate myself as to the reasons why they may hold the belief that they do, but I cannot in good faith ‘support’ a person who may have a fetish whereby he gets sexually aroused when others around him go along with the delusion that he's female. My ‘support’ for that person would be to recommend they see a good psychiatrist. I cannot ‘support’ an autistic teen girl who wants her breasts removed and be seen as a boy because she is struggling with puberty, or a girls who has been a victim of sexual abuse, or who just doesn’t fit in with the ‘cool’ girls. In all of those cases, affirmation isn’t support, it’s cruel.

I think penis removal is pretty much never a good idea. A vagina is pretty amazing anatomically speaking. When you make a fake one you’re just creating an open wound in the body that will need, probably painful, dilation for ever more. Lots of issues regarding incontinence, infection and nerve pain.

Even if he did lop it off he’d never be a woman.

It’s absolutely the same thing in many cases. And if you cant see that, then you’re blind as to whats happening around you.

"incorrect": no,it's a lie. That's the problem,no matter how nice he is,and it's great he's happier,but you,and society,are being told we must lie,and are brains rebel at it and try to warn us to the truth. If he was just wearing dresses or make up,you know,like a new romantic, but didn't feel the sexist need to say this now changes biology,I think fewer people would care.

If it’s the same, it’s a mental health issue, and if we shouldn’t be blinding people who feel they should be blind we shouldn’t be transient people who feel like they should be the opposite sex. We shouldn’t be treating their mental condition. Also, it’s often not the same, it’s often a fetish.

Im not disagreeing with you. Do you mean we shouldnt treat a mental condition by going along with the delusion?

Yes that’s what I mean. I misread your post and we are, in fact, agreeing! Sorry!

@rubyslippers
'I care
What does living as a woman mean?!
you earn less than a man

woman is not a feeling

if we change the meaning of words, then what?'

Agreed.
A man can dress as a woman but still enjoy all the benefits of being a man. I seriously doubt a female can dress as a man and all of a sudden be able to walk down the street at night without any fear, or miraculously get a pay rise overnight.

Woman is not a feeling, it's an actuality that you're born with and live with. Men move through the world differently to women, and they always will regardless of how they dress/behave/call themselves.

Having met a few trans women I find it a disconcerting experience because although they have a female name, clothes, wear pink a lot (😒) every ounce of their behaviour is male. Not one shred of femininity about them.