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To think that the middle classes are liars and actors?

418 replies

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:37

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

OP posts:
Smallsalt · 05/10/2024 15:48

Do you expect them to go around in flat caps or wear pyjamas to ASDA?

And actually, why do you care? I mean, why would you give this a micro second of head space let alone "snoop".
The only alarming snobbery on display is your reverse kind.

For the record I work in opera, have horses and live in a posh house. I was brought up on a council estate, but, brace yourself, my Dad was a head teacher.
I presume this will truly blow your mind.

NowImNotDoingIt · 05/10/2024 15:58

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:37

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

Are you exactly the same as you were as a child? You haven't changed any mannerisms , or words you use , or habits ?

People evolve, they change, they adapt to their own environment.

I don't sound like a russian "baddie" from a bad Arnold Schwarzenegger movie like I did when I first moved to the UK. That doesn't mean I'm faking or acting

FKAT · 05/10/2024 16:05

GoodbyeToulouse · 05/10/2024 15:02

I remember reading about someone came from a working class background, went to a good university, 'married up' and consciously dropped their (I think it was) Brummy accent to get ahead. I totally get that education can change people, their habits, their social circles etc. but I think to consciously drop your accent is sacrificing a little bit of your soul. It kind of smacks of insecurity too.

Or she got pig sick of nice middle class graduates taking the piss out of the Brummy accent and thought it was easier to blend in.

Employers are also prejudiced against regional accents. My (ironically West Midlands) public school boss used to say my accent was too 'estuary'.

Working class people aren't just extras to provide regional flavour in the background you know.

GoodbyeToulouse · 05/10/2024 16:10

FKAT · 05/10/2024 16:05

Or she got pig sick of nice middle class graduates taking the piss out of the Brummy accent and thought it was easier to blend in.

Employers are also prejudiced against regional accents. My (ironically West Midlands) public school boss used to say my accent was too 'estuary'.

Working class people aren't just extras to provide regional flavour in the background you know.

It's fitting the "extras" narrative if they feel they have to reinvent themselves because of an accent. If any idiot is prejudiced, it's their own narrow mindedness and why should someone play to that? I have a Scottish accent and have a very senior professional role. Never felt the need to drop it to fit in or to prove myself. I left the proving myself to my abilities.

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 05/10/2024 16:16

GoodbyeToulouse · 05/10/2024 15:25

Yes but in the case I described it was a conscious effort to reinvent herself. That is quite different.

Ok, a conscious reinvention is one thing (goes the same for the posh kids who speak like they should be on TOWIE). But plenty of people sound or live differently to how they were brought up, and the OP seems to say they are all faking and acting. Which I disagree with.

LaughingCat · 05/10/2024 16:28

I’m solidly middle class - my mum is the eldest of seven kids, brought up in a two-bedroom council flat in Holland by my Opa, a miner who became a plumber when the local mines shut down, and my Oma, a cleaner. My Opa’s mum got pregnant by a soldier passing through town (the scandal). My Oma’s parents were a poacher and a washerwoman. So my mum was solid working class, though both of her grandmothers’ parents were middle class (but hey, get knocked up and left to be a teen single mum or run away with the local poacher and you get cut out 😂). She came over here as an au pair and ended up being the head of buying for a global home catalogue business (helps when you speak six languages!)

My dad probably was more middle class - his dad learned to be a bomb technician in WW2 and went on to work as a chemist thanks to that training, rising to become head of Ciba’s South Africa division. His mum was a housewife who unfortunately died when my dad was young. But go a couple of generations back from him and they were mill workers and the like, that came over from Ireland. So the opposite story, I guess!

I had private schooling, a nice holiday a year, horse riding since I was old enough to wobble about on chubby legs. We weren’t rich enough to be upper class, I had too much privilege to be working class. I now have a job that I could mostly do from home but it doesn’t pay well enough for me to be comfortable about retirement or affording kids. We live in a nice house with a mortgage but on an ex-council estate. So I figure I’m pretty middle class. My mum is as well - she now runs her own Pilates studio (she retrained) and again, has a nice little semi that’s a million miles away from a council flat in rural Holland but her retirement won’t be cruises and galas lol. Her sister’s probably UMC now (kids went to boarding schools, several nice holidays a year, a flat in Marbella and a wine cellar that I’m very envious of, and the knowledge to make good use of it to boot!).

I have a friend who was brought up as a minor lordling, I guess, with ski seasons and overseas boarding schools and Monaco red carpets, who’s happy living in a three-roomed flat as a welder.

What I’m trying to say is that it doesn’t really matter what your origins are or . You’re not lying, you are just who you are. Your opportunities, choices and those of others all play into what you become. Was my mum, in that council flat as a kid, somehow middle class because her parents would save up every penny to take them to the theatre sometimes, or listened to classical music or put a huge emphasis on education and learning everything they could? Financially speaking, I guess being middle class is basically never qualifying for benefits but never having enough to feel comfortable massively splashing out, either. It’s the slightly anxious, middle-ground.

So basically, what is class? Is it where you live? How much money you have? Where you come from? Where you feel comfortable? It’s a complex, highly subjective thing with so many factors that impact on it.

You seem to have a pretty narrow view of what it means though, @MargaretBrewer, that suggests you feel that if you are born into a role, you and your kids should stay in your lane. How dare a privately schooled child of common workers ‘lord it about’ as if he’s middle class? How dare a woman with a keen interest in the arts and culture, and has made the money to fully explore them, act as though she’s UMC when she came from such lowly beginnings?

Me? I guess I’m going to carry on being middle-class. Because I probably am, despite my ancestors’ origins. And I’m not going to worry my head about whether I, or anyone else, truly am or not.

BarbaraHoward · 05/10/2024 16:39

BCBird · 05/10/2024 14:59

I stopped reading . Why are you bothered?

The peasants are getting ideas above their stations.

AutumnalCosiness · 05/10/2024 16:44

Why do you care OP?

AutumnalCosiness · 05/10/2024 16:45

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:49

Okay, the response was as I feared.

I'll reword it a little: I'm simply surprised. Can a person's behaviour and speech shift throughout their life? If so , they must be performing to some degree

What class are you?

AutumnalCosiness · 05/10/2024 16:46

Working class people aren't just extras to provide regional flavour in the background you know

🤣🤣🤣

Savingthehedgehogs · 05/10/2024 16:47

BarbaraHoward · 05/10/2024 16:39

The peasants are getting ideas above their stations.

It’s two way street. The UC can also fall on very hard times - it’s not just a one way ticket upwards. You make a good point, because it can create a great deal of resentment and bitterness. Especially if one has grown up in lavish surroundings and a lineage of great achievements.

AutumnalCosiness · 05/10/2024 16:47

Just wondering if you are aware that SOME people even pretend to be a different sex too OP...?

It's a mad old world 🤷🏻‍♀️

steff13 · 05/10/2024 16:48

I cannot fathom why an anyone would care.

Waitfortheguinness · 05/10/2024 16:49

Give your head a wobble.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/10/2024 17:01

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:49

Okay, the response was as I feared.

I'll reword it a little: I'm simply surprised. Can a person's behaviour and speech shift throughout their life? If so , they must be performing to some degree

@MargaretBrewer - when a baby is born, she or he cannot walk or talk. The vast majority learn to do both - a major change from how they begun, I am sure you will agree. Are they ‘pretending’ or ‘acting’ because they have learned new skills? Of course not.

Everybody changes during their lifetime - they learn things, new behaviours, new habits - they grow and develop. This is a perfectly normal and natural thing, and the vast majority of people are simply being who they are - not acting.

KindOf · 05/10/2024 17:37

Kristophersmum · 05/10/2024 14:26

My view was the OP was trying to discuss how people can be acting up or acting " fake" and trying to state how such "lying / covering up " seems to be detrimental etc etc. I was suggesting it's valid to some extent as if you understand psychology and history you can see how humans have this inclination. Anthropology also shows this ... I can image Mr caveman & Ms cave women and their cave kids would be trying to show how better they'll were to their neighbouring cavemen lol. People are different, deep down I think we all know what's right and wrong . I try to be

an optimist & have a thirst for knowledge. My background is varied and I meet all walks of life. I've seen all sorts trying to create better pictures of themselves & life in general - can be a laugh watching it all and I'm thankful I understand why people act like this .... doesn't make it right ... and yes would be good of people just to be themselves and realise we are one after all. Shakespeare comes to.mind .... re:- the world is a stage & .... full of actors etc etc lol

The OP is calling people ‘liars and actors’ because she was labouring under some kind of delusion about their class origins. There’s no evidence whatsoever anyone was misleading the OP, only that she’d built up some kind of narrative about them that turned out not to be the reality. I’m not ‘pretending’ to be a senior academic who likes opera any more than I’m pretending not to be the daughter of a semi-literate binman, or putting on an accent.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/10/2024 17:38

Absolutely, OP. These povvos really ought to know their place.

NowImNotDoingIt · 05/10/2024 17:41

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/10/2024 17:38

Absolutely, OP. These povvos really ought to know their place.

Yup how dare they "act" middle class with their lowly roots?

How is OP supposed to recognise the riff raff when they're well spoken and have good jobs.

Oh the horror!

DinosaurMunch · 05/10/2024 19:06

This story of rags to riches applies to most people - it's totally normal. In the 20s 95% of people were working class and there was a huge division between classes that most people had no chance of crossing. In the 50s (my parents generation) most people were still working class. Nowadays everyone has access to education, which is a great leveller - a medical degree is the same no matter what your accent or hobbies. Most 18 year olds see university as an option for them if they want to go. I know plenty of people born in the 60s and 70s of working class origin who did not have chance at university as they were expected to leave school at 16 and went straight to manual work. Now their children have been to university. University isn't the only marker of being middle class but it demonstrates the opportunity is there. Living conditions in this country have improved hugely over the last century. Unfortunately social mobility has stalled and even reversed a bit under the recent Tory government but overall the trend has been upwards.

People who are genuinely middle class since the generation before their parents or grandparents alive in the 50s are very much the exception

Nobodyknowsitall5 · 05/10/2024 19:33

You need help

tillytoodles1 · 05/10/2024 19:43

If you have to work to support your lifestyle then surely you're working class.

Theonewhogotaway · 05/10/2024 19:52

tillytoodles1 · 05/10/2024 19:43

If you have to work to support your lifestyle then surely you're working class.

No that’s not how class is defined, if it was what would retired peiple or folks on benefits be?

you can google if you wish to understand more about definitions of class. But if it helps, working class is unskilled and earns a wage, likely paid by the hour.

middle class is semi skilled or skilled labour, that earns a salary, and has had further education.

upper class is landed gentry or aristocrates

all three classes work, it is the type of labour they do that defines the class.

KindOf · 05/10/2024 19:58

tillytoodles1 · 05/10/2024 19:43

If you have to work to support your lifestyle then surely you're working class.

Surely no one is dense enough to believe this, yet it gets produced with a great air of wisdom on every class thread.

Sure, @tillytoodles1, there’s no difference in income, educational level, lifestyle, qualifications, likely life expectancy etc between the CEO of AstraZeneca and a minimum-wage care worker. They both work, right?

DiscontentedPig · 05/10/2024 20:07

Welding's a proper skill, have you ever tried it?

BoredZelda · 05/10/2024 20:07

Don't worry OP. Gen X is the last generation guaranteed to better than their parents because the boomers started and still are bleeding the country dry. Order will be restored and by the time I'm old enough to be mean about younger generations, they will be back trapped in their rightful places, working to keep the rich man in buckshot.

But, I should add, I'm, not sure why you are so down on construction. I work in the industry and it is awash with money. Always has been.

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