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To think that the middle classes are liars and actors?

418 replies

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:37

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

OP posts:
sussexman · 05/10/2024 15:18

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:49

Okay, the response was as I feared.

I'll reword it a little: I'm simply surprised. Can a person's behaviour and speech shift throughout their life? If so , they must be performing to some degree

I'm loving MargaretBrewer as a name change!

Everyone "performs" to some extent, people engage in social situations in what they perceive to be appropriate ways unless they actually have no filter. How people see things also changes throughout their lives, and as the company they keep changes. You seem to think this is in some way reprehensible rather than human beings living their lives and engaging with each other. Quite frankly I don;t see why my grandparent's income in 1935 should determine my social engagement now, nor indeed should yours.

CruCru · 05/10/2024 15:19

This is an interesting thread. I suspect that the OP is taking the piss.

It used to be that most people were working class. The OP refers to people working in steel - I don’t think that’s even much of an option any more. My own family worked in the shipyards in Newcastle. What we tend to think of as “working class” occupations have been shut down.

Nowadays most people are (more or less) middle class. Some of those middle class people will have descended from the working classes.

Gogogo12345 · 05/10/2024 15:20

SocksShmocks · 05/10/2024 13:00

This is going to shock you OP but my grandad was a plasterer and I went to private school.

Lol I went to private school and my Dad was a postman. We also had lessons in elocution and posture etc

Hakunatomato · 05/10/2024 15:23

I hope you are taking the piss because if not, you sound like a hideous individual! So judgemental and nasty! Bet you have a lot of friends with an attitude like yours! You seem to be deeply unpleasant.

DoreenonTill8 · 05/10/2024 15:23

Ensconcedinvelvet · 05/10/2024 13:49

This is up there with "I met a woman outside in the sun and she was wearing sunglasses and isn't that rude?" for batshittery...but at least that OP had the good grace to admit she must be being unreasonable when she got rinsed for it.

Oh yes!! Scandalised the friend had sunglasses on in a pub garden and didn't remove the glasses to introduce herself!! 😆😎

GoodbyeToulouse · 05/10/2024 15:25

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 05/10/2024 15:12

I think to consciously drop your accent is sacrificing a little bit of your soul. It kind of smacks of insecurity too.

But it is pretty well established that going to university does (or used to) modify peoples accents. Being around lots of people from other parts of the country, and needing to be understood, seems to lessen strong accents a bit. Its not always deliberate.

Yes but in the case I described it was a conscious effort to reinvent herself. That is quite different.

ANGIEPANGY77 · 05/10/2024 15:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ArseyVarsey · 05/10/2024 15:26

I know who has started this thread!
Fine statesman and pillar of the community Jacob Rees Smug himself! Margaret,we thank you.

To think that the middle classes are liars and actors?
Goxhound · 05/10/2024 15:28

The Middle Class as "Liars and Actors": Social Mobility, Class Presentation, and Cultural Identity

The question raised in the excerpt—whether the middle classes are inherently "liars and actors"—is a complex one rooted in the dynamics of social mobility, cultural identity, and class presentation. The notion that individuals who rise from working-class origins to middle-class status might be performing or hiding their background taps into wider sociological themes surrounding class fluidity, social status, and the perception of authenticity. This essay explores these themes, considering whether the middle classes are indeed "actors," or if such perceptions reveal deeper anxieties about social mobility and cultural presentation.

  1. The Middle Class: A Complex Definition

The term "middle class" is often ambiguous, varying significantly by region, profession, and cultural context. It typically refers to a socioeconomic group that falls between the working class and the upper class, often characterised by stable income, property ownership, and access to education and cultural resources. However, what constitutes "middle class" is not solely determined by economic factors; cultural markers such as taste, manners, and values play a significant role.

Historically, social theorists such as Pierre Bourdieu have argued that class identity is as much about cultural capital as it is about economic capital. Cultural capital includes knowledge, tastes, and social practices that distinguish one class from another. Middle-class individuals may adopt certain behaviours, language, and aesthetic preferences that signal their status, whether or not they come from a long-standing middle-class background.

  1. Social Mobility and Class Fluidity

One of the most striking aspects of the cases discussed is the revelation that individuals who present as middle class may come from working-class or lower-middle-class backgrounds. This reflects the phenomenon of social mobility, where individuals or families move between social strata based on changes in income, education, or occupation. In the UK, social mobility has historically been linked to access to education, such as attending grammar schools or private schools, and gaining professional qualifications.

The middle classes often benefit from such mobility, but the transition from a working-class background to a middle-class lifestyle can involve significant cultural adaptation. Sociologists argue that individuals who move between classes often feel the need to adopt the norms and values of their new social group, in order to fit in and be accepted. This process can lead to what is sometimes perceived as a form of “acting,” as they navigate new expectations and cultural norms.

  1. Cultural Capital and Class Performance

Bourdieu’s concept of habitus, or the ingrained habits, skills, and dispositions that individuals acquire through their social environment, is critical to understanding how people "perform" class. Those who grow up in working-class families but later become middle class may learn to mimic or adopt the cultural codes of their new class. This is not necessarily deceitful but part of the adaptation process as they align themselves with the values and expectations of their new social milieu.

The cases mentioned in the post highlight individuals whose outward presentation—through material possessions, social behaviour, or speech—aligns with middle-class stereotypes, despite their origins. These presentations can be seen as forms of cultural capital, which they have acquired through education, social networks, or new professional roles. Their "performance" of middle-class values, therefore, can be understood as a survival mechanism in a society that values upward mobility and rewards conformity to the dominant culture.

  1. Perceptions of Authenticity and Snobbery

The surprise and frustration expressed in the post appear to stem from an underlying assumption that people should remain "true" to their class origins and that crossing class boundaries involves an element of dishonesty or snobbery. This taps into broader societal anxieties about authenticity—the idea that one’s class identity should remain consistent with their origins, and that any deviation is somehow false or disingenuous.

Snobbery, often defined as looking down on others based on class or social standing, is a behaviour commonly associated with the middle and upper classes. However, what is perceived as snobbery may sometimes be a defensive reaction by those who have climbed the social ladder, who feel the need to distance themselves from their working-class origins in order to secure their new status. This can manifest in behaviours that seem elitist or exclusionary, but may in fact be rooted in insecurity or fear of falling back down the social hierarchy.

Moreover, the idea of “snobbery” in this context may also be linked to status anxiety, a concept popularised by philosopher Alain de Botton. Individuals who have achieved middle-class status might feel a constant pressure to maintain their position and demonstrate their success, which can lead to exaggerated displays of cultural or social superiority. This, in turn, might be perceived as acting or snobbery by those who feel excluded from or alienated by middle-class norms.

  1. Conclusion

In conclusion, the notion that the middle classes are "liars and actors" is an oversimplification of the complex social processes at play. Social mobility and cultural adaptation often necessitate a shift in behaviours and values, which can be perceived as disingenuous by those who remain in their original class. However, this is not necessarily an act of deceit but a natural consequence of navigating different social environments and expectations.

The cases discussed reflect broader concerns about authenticity, status, and cultural identity in a society where class boundaries are both fluid and rigid. What might seem like snobbery or acting is, in many cases, a reflection of the pressures and anxieties associated with maintaining social mobility and the cultural capital that comes with it. Rather than viewing the middle classes as inherently deceptive, it is more productive to understand these behaviours as part of the ongoing negotiation of class identity in a rapidly changing society.

newnamethanks · 05/10/2024 15:28

C+ for this, OP. Must try harder.

OhDearMuriel · 05/10/2024 15:30

Oh dear oh dear, how sad are you??
Welcome to the world.

kolalumps · 05/10/2024 15:31

Maybe the big lie is telling you they are from working class backgrounds so they seem more humble.

ArseyVarsey · 05/10/2024 15:31

@Goxhound excellent sociological perspective and analysis there.
However, northern scumbags won’t be able to comprehend a jot of what you’ve said. Could you draw pictures?

pleasehelpwi3 · 05/10/2024 15:31

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:37

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

I've never read so much drivel in my entire life.

GivingitToGod · 05/10/2024 15:32

OP, you come across as a totally prejudiced snob. I am shocked by your post.
Please read it and reflect. I strongly advise unconscious bias training.
Astounding that people with opinions/prejudices like yours exist unless it is a wind up

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 05/10/2024 15:33

In my experience, builders often own multiple properties because they have the skills to do them up!

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/10/2024 15:34

WhereYouLeftIt · 05/10/2024 13:21

"Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!"

But surely what you've described is working class people adopting the mannerisms associated with the middle classes - so it's the workng classes acting/lying/being snobs? Confused

I agree, @WhereYouLeftIt - and it seems to me that the OP is generalising across a whole class, based only on a few examples.

GivingitToGod · 05/10/2024 15:34

LoftLaughLoads · 05/10/2024 14:06

Nasty snobbishness like this is very lower class of course, but also exceptionally outdated. Who the fuck cares whether anyone came from poorer or richer parents? People are free to be themselves and the daughter of a dustman and a dinner lady is perfectly capable of becoming a high court justice and developing a fondness for opera. Nobody owes you conformity to your preconceived stereotypes so they aren't "pretending" anything when they fail to exhibit the traits your prejudiced mind expects of them.

Brilliant post, thank you for so eloquently describing how I feel.
From a proud professional whose mum was a cleaner! ( thank u mum)

GiddyRobin · 05/10/2024 15:39

This is so bizarre. Why are you even thinking about it? Why does it matter?

I fail to see how it's a "performance" if people subtly change over the course of their lives, or better themselves socially and financially.

I grew up very working class. My dad was a labourer. Moved from Ireland when he was very young. However, he was also greatly interested in poetry and literature. I had elocution lessons as a child because I had a bit of a lisp, apparently. So a lot of the time I've a typical RP accent. Other times, the Irish seeps in when I'm speaking to family.

I recieved postgraduate degrees and now have a fab career, and I'm mortgage free in my 30s. I'm not pretending to be anything. I'm just living my life. Would you prefer if I introduced myself whilst telling people about my dad's upbringing?

DH is Norwegian. For clarity, he unconsciously falls into a RP-esque accent when he's trying to make himself fully understood in English. Does that mean he's pretending? Is he trying to hide that he's from Norway?

This thread is insane.

Savingthehedgehogs · 05/10/2024 15:39

When is our country ever going to get over the class wars? It’s so divisive.

I find it so DEPRESSING that it’s even a thing these days, and I refuse to even engage in the language - a human being is a human being, and class is a societal construct and that’s it! Honestly I am exasperated, and in my world everyone is worthy of respect, opportunity and value.

damebarbaracartlandsbiggestfan · 05/10/2024 15:41

One of my forebears started working as a coal miner at 15 but was a huge classical music fan, all of their life.
The working class covered most of the population 100 years ago. Many of those people back then who did hard manual jobs were of course sensitive, intelligent and spoke well and would have loved the opportunity to experience travel, culture and different foods when/if they could, same as most people now!

olivehater · 05/10/2024 15:44

Surely you can more by more of yourself ( and strut about as you say) if you’ve made the money yourself rather than if it’s been handed to you from birth!

SerenityNowSerenityNow · 05/10/2024 15:44

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

I guess you'd think I was 'middle class presenting'. University academic, lovely house in a gorgeous village etc.

You would also consider my upbringing 'unglamorous'. Teenage parents, lived on a council estate, dad was a welder and mum worked in a factory.

My question is ... why does it matter? 🤷🏼‍♀️

kitsuneghost · 05/10/2024 15:47

My parents are working class and very well spoken and turn out very well. Not all working class are common as muck.

Also you are don't have to be stuck in a certain lifestyle because that's how your grandparents started out.
Believe it or not there is such a thing as social mobility

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