To think that the middle classes are liars and actors?

[MargaretBrewer]

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

Why are you so obsessed with people's classes?

Do you honestly give a shit?

Exactly this 🤣
How dare they behave like a middle class when their parents worked in steel industry, how dare they.

Oh hell.
I was born in a mining town.
Yet, I learned to read and write. Heck, even play a musical instrument and write poetry from time to time.
Instead of pulling sticks off bushes and trees to eat, I use cutlery now.
I carry the shame of my father being from Doncaster and even worse, my grandmother coming from Wigan.
And yet, I have bought teabags from Fortnum and Mason. With my own money.
I even went to the theatre last night. Mind you, the play was set in the north of England, with working class people, so to console myself and even scummier friend, we shared a box of ‘premium Lindnt’ chocolates.
Although please forgive me OP, there isn’t a Waitrose around for about 100 miles. That grates somewhat.

WTF have I just read (not the thread, just the OP)! Unless people are actively lying to you - telling you they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth when they were not, for example - how are they doing anything but being themselves? You sound like my horrible sister - she aggressively presents herself in a certain way - dropping 'h's when she never used to in the past, using certain phrases she has heard other people doing, turning her nose up at anything that she considers posh (which is basically anything she does not like). We were born on a council estate but brought up to study hard, read, likes plays and films and speak nicely. In my mind, she is the far bigger snob than anyone you have described.

Huh... of course no one stays the same their whole life..

Well, some people do and I find them to usually be incredibly small minded.

I have lived all over the world and always changed slightly depending on the culture of where I am and the people I socialise with. It is just human nature.
After a few years somewhere you can't help but change to carrying degrees.

Thinking that we are locked into the way our parents were and having to emulate that for a lifetime is utterly absurd.

We cannot control our childhoods, the decisions we make as adults shape us.

No one is pretending. You are angry that your assumptions turned out to not be true

I am in my 50s and have never ever met people and wondered what class they or their parents are or were.
i find it so weird that you ‘dig around’ that I guess this is a joke post.

I stopped reading . Why are you bothered?

Working class doesn’t mean that you work, it means that you work in an unskilled manual role. Anyone who works in an office is middle class, anyone who has had extra education to learn a skill required for work is middle class.

I grew up in a council house, mum worked as a dinner lady step dad a builder. In pubs a lot as kids, parents were big drinkers. I am northern and have a very broad accent.

I am now 34, 3 children, partner, live in a housing association semi detached home I am very proud of. I worked bloody hard in insurance now I homeschool our youngest. and my partner works very hard too.
We don’t have loads of disposable income, holidays are camping.I don’t drink, I very rarely go out. I love staying at home, reading, baking, walking my dog and spending time with my family.
sometimes I try to refine my accent when we are away/im on the phone with a company for example, as past experience people struggle to understand me. I don’t do this because I think I’m above my station.

my parents were working class, I am working class. We help anyone and you will find most of the working class still hold the old school values of looking out for one another.

if ‘going up in the ranks’ means being around a judgemental, bitchy person like you then no thanks.
we’re happy in working class. We’re proud of who we are.

I remember reading about someone came from a working class background, went to a good university, 'married up' and consciously dropped their (I think it was) Brummy accent to get ahead. I totally get that education can change people, their habits, their social circles etc. but I think to consciously drop your accent is sacrificing a little bit of your soul. It kind of smacks of insecurity too.

Op, have you just fallen into 2024 through the looking glass from 1825?

Cross post. I totally understand modifying your accent or speaking slower so you can be understood. That's very different to reinventing yourself.

I knew this middle class lawyer who was so successful he actually became prime minister. Turned out his father was a toolmaker.

I don't know why he didn't just tell people that from the start.

OP….are you anti northern? I’ve just realised, my grandmother, who was from Wigan, went to work for the families in a steel town! She then joined the RAF during ww2……what a fine actress she must have been.
she had a car, and could drive.
she had electricity in her house.
I will go so far as to say this though. I have a passport. I have left the country and travelled. But the annoying thing?
The little bit in my passport which states my place of birth.
The shame I carry.
I’m surprised I don’t get stopped and strip searched, or worse, refused entry into other countries.
I should. I too am from Doncaster.
But I am a warrior.

Know your place, peasants! 🙄 Honestly, we are so lucky to have an access to the world and experience and education and other people and cultures that is unparalleled in history... can we celebrate that instead of trying to tear it down?

I think its a case of you are who you hang with/your friends are a reflection of who you are.

Most people tend to have friendships with people that not only have the same interests, but also similar income, this changes through life.

Think of it like someone wanting to quit drugs, those that are successful eventually stop being around other drug users.

In terms of 'snobbery', I would maybe see it as sometimes, depending on their experiences prior to being MC, that they truly understand how shit life can be.

Eg, as a young teen that was allowed to stay out late and hang around outside shops, there's no way that I'm willingly letting my DC do the same. The amount of drink, drugs and crime that I was exposed to was (looking back) shocking.

Luckily, I got past the worst of this, went to uni as a mature student and now earning a salary that I only dreamed of ( which ironically is only the national average). I speak differently because you tend to pick up on those around you, many people that I work with are middle and upper class. If I still kept the same company as growing up, every other word would be a swear word, talking slang, etc. This isn't something that I've chosen, it's subconscious and now I cring thinking of what I was like 25 yrs ago.

I think to consciously drop your accent is sacrificing a little bit of your soul. It kind of smacks of insecurity too.

But it is pretty well established that going to university does (or used to) modify peoples accents. Being around lots of people from other parts of the country, and needing to be understood, seems to lessen strong accents a bit. Its not always deliberate.

All I get from this is that the OP makes assumptions about people’s backgrounds that they later find out are incorrect.

And that OP feels very confused - and even lied to - because it turns out class and wealth are complex and can seem to shift across generations.

Definitely Goodbye Toulouse
Dropping accents can be a form of insecurity and unfortunately people judge...sometimes correctly and sometimes totally incorrectly. We are all human.beings after all and not robots ! We live - We learn. I'm generation x , my son is a gen alpha z. Bluebell OP has def illustrated alot of Victorian thought processes !
Creation nation- re:- Catherine's accent She was ever Eliza Dolittle however it's very clear from.past recordings of her that her mid England accent has now changed to a more "regal blue "cut accent either throu elocution lessons or self taught throu association !
I went to uni and my accent always goes up and down like a yo yo sometimes - as I like to mix it up sometimes ....kept my brain cells alive lol Our language is wonderful as other languages are as well ! The vikings would have had social classifications and tribal national also .... part of being human to be able to enjoy being able to use your voice in many ways !

.

How fucking dare they??? Poor people shouldn't be able to behave like that!!! Are you for real OP?!?

Middle class is a lifestyle and personality you can acquire, OP, or just even be someone that is naturally that way inclined. It isn't always something you're born in to.

Just because someones parents seem 'rough' doesn't mean they are either. Dad may have been in 'steel' but may also have been a very intelligent man with a good work ethic and even an interest in the arts ffs. Your post is grim.

Actually, your "class" isn't determined by your income.

Much as I hate the concept, typically your "class" is determined by your parents and your background and how you were raised. For the duration of your life, even if your situation changes, your "class " will not.

From quiet observation, no matter how wealthy or poor a person may present, you can, rightly or wrongly, nearly always tell which "class" /background they were born into.

It is fascinating and sad in equal measures to see how influential and burdensome "class" can be.

Only if you're a Londoner.

Further north you'd be shouting 'Hey up!' and breeding whippets.

Not sure which country you live in, but there has been upward and downward mobility in the UK for a long time and you can’t tell people’s economic/social heritage by looking at or listening to them. Or is this a wind up?