Female nurses have to get changed with a male. They are told to go to another room. The man keeps the female changing room to himself. Wtaf is going on?

[TealTraybake]

Female nurses ‘forced out of changing rooms’ after complaining about trans colleague

NHS whistleblowers dubbed ‘Darlington Five’ say they feel ‘humiliated and dehumanised’

Read in The Telegraph: https://apple.news/AC7RGaXTPTYe2J4CAixEvDw

We tried being nice, it got us called bigots. It got us rape and death threats.

particularly around definitions as everyone knows them anyway.

Oh really? A "trans woman" is a biological male who "identifies" as a woman in some way. Is that your definition also?

@PiggleToes I've read the whole thread and I'm none the wiser as to what your solution is. You acknowledge that every person is entitled to their safety, privacy and dignity. Do you truly believe admitting transwomen to women's changing rooms and other single sex spaces satisfies these requirements? When many, many women clearly feel this fails on all three counts?
I can't support your suggestion that a third space for transwomen is 'outing' and therefore a worse solution than using women's safe spaces. Everyone here has asked you to propose a solution that does not include using women's safe spaces and you refuse to engage. You are being disingenuous when you say you are interested in finding a genuine answer.

I just wish we could have discussions with it descending into the hate that it does on both sides.

Absolutely with you on this.

That this issue has become so toxic is bad for everyone, except maybe those who thrive on throwing out abuse and death threats. And even then it can't be great for their long term mental health.

I proposed one a while back.
similar to the hospital provided in this case.
A third space for women who are not comfortable changing with trans women and girls.

Lots of posters were inclined to agree with this as a solution. But then some started worrying it would be “outing” of them as gender critical in a way that might be stigmatising, degrading and/or invite discrimination.. 🤔🤔

A third space for women who are not comfortable changing with trans women and girls.

Males. It has zero to do with "trans" anything.

You stroll into a (predominantly) female forum, championing the needs of 'vulnerable' men, suggesting that women should centre these men and give up their hard fought rights to do so. And then you bleat about being mocked and ganged up on.

I'm struggling a bit to locate my fucks to give 🤷

No no. You see women and men already (usually) have their spaces. Just for them. No one else. In fact I think legally, new builds have to provide these defined spaces.

A 3rd space would be a unisex space. Which anybody can use.

And that is all we need.

Why the hell should women and girls be forced out of the space specifically for them, that is punishing them?

The ONLY solution is for males who call themselves 'trans women' to accept the third space.

That, is the only workable solution. Punishing women and girls who don't want to see a male with his erect prick out is not a solution unless you are a malicious and malignant vindictive predator who wants to punish women for not wanting naked males out. Your 'solution' is to PUNISH women and girls, and elevate the naked sexual predator to their space.

That is not a solution.

Now: tell us what a trans woman is, in your view.

(Yes, we know you'll cowardly avoid answering, and in doing so, 'peak' more people, so we win, and you lose)

@PiggleToes but that requires women to move out of their safe space. In this case 4 or 5 women are changing in a tiny space with the one trans person in the women's changing room they are not biologically entitled to use. Wouldn't it make sense for the trans person to have the locker room?

You are a bullying misogynist mean girl who hates other women so much she wants to sexually humiliate them in front of men.

I'd read it like that if I were you?

I'm struggling a bit to locate my fucks to give 🤷

not asking or expecting you to give any fucks. Just calling a spade a spade.

Calling a man a woman.

You are a bullying misogynist mean girl who hates other women so much she wants to sexually humiliate them in front of men.

Do you think this is an ok thing to say to me because I disagree with your opinions about trans women?

No. That isn't what happened. At the start of the thread, a lot of people tried to have a reasonable discussion with you but you refused to engage and were quite unpleasant and belligerent about it. I suggest you go back and have a read of your earlier posts and you might see that your current version of reality isn't what actually happened.

How can you disagree with opinions on trans women when you won't even define trans women, sir?

Waaah waaah waaah reality is soooo mean to me.

Hmm.

Yes.

Life isn't fair.

Your actual problem is?

Everyone has different definitions, mean girl, how about you share yours so we know what the hell you mean?

other than men are better and more important than women?

No you're not. You're calling a spade a fork for the most part.

I think we'd all prefer to 'call a spade a spade'

Therefore: all transwomen are male.

Great!

Glad we all agree.

I'm not sure if you're joking here. Nobody agreed with this solution. That is not what is generally meant by a third space.

Female only, male only and gender neutral (mixed sex) has already been tried in different settings. The Hampstead Ponds being the most well known. It doesn't work because this type of man, who says he identifies as a woman, ONLY wants to be in the space designated for biological females.
Calling the spaces by various different names won't make any difference.
The type of man we are discussing will still ONLY want to be in the space designated for women who don't feel comfortable undressing in front of males. Nothing else will do.

A 3rd space would be a unisex space. Which anybody can use.
And that is all we need.

No. because I do not want to change in a free for all space. I am happy to change with trans women and girls, as are lots of other women.

Meanwhile a space specifically for trans women is outing, stigmatising, degrading, dangerous.

So really a third space for women and girls with trans exclusionary viewpoints seems the most obvious solution. Especially as you people apparently see no reason why a third space for a specific group might be outing , degrading or unsafe?

And in practice who would actually use... Oh wait... Not the majority of women.

@PiggleToes

You do realise that many males who identify as women do it for sexual motives? It's called autogynephilia. The act of fantasy about your male self as a woman, or wearing the trappings of femininity. In the past we used to call them "transvestites" or "cross dressers". It's extremely well known as a paraphilia.

Women shouldn't have to put up with that in women's spaces. Not all these male people, but that's part of the reason we have female only spaces, so women don't have to deal with constant sexual harassment.