Female nurses have to get changed with a male. They are told to go to another room. The man keeps the female changing room to himself. Wtaf is going on?

[TealTraybake]

Female nurses ‘forced out of changing rooms’ after complaining about trans colleague

NHS whistleblowers dubbed ‘Darlington Five’ say they feel ‘humiliated and dehumanised’

Read in The Telegraph: https://apple.news/AC7RGaXTPTYe2J4CAixEvDw

Me! Just joking

And this is why I won’t be dming you

Nope, waiting with baited breath.

I imagine she's busy googling to find something with enough long words in to make her look like her idea of an "intellectual".

You never intended to PM the definition to anyone, you disingenuous liar.

We all knew that.

Whats up mean girl? Worried what people might say?

Well feel free to send it to someone else on this thread who you think is less of a mean girl then.

We are going to be fighting this push for a long time. We know.

For the sake of supporting your own thoughts on this, can you tell us at what point exactly does any male person become a female in your view as being suitable for inclusion? Do they have to cruelly have their penis removed and live with the unhealing wound in their groin for the rest of their life? Or is it a name change?

Who arbitrates who has become sufficiently 'female'?

Do you begin to see the issue? It is not even a kindness to say that some male people can enter these spaces and some can not. It cruelly puts those people that others consider vulnerable into a position of having to make themselves medical patients forever. All to allow someone to be kind.

And another question, if a male person doesn't want to be bundled in with perverts and offenders, wouldn't they respect female people's boundaries and just find alternative solutions for themselves? We are told by many male and female trans people that they are doing this anyway. The male people who seem to understand and respect female people's needs don't trangress into female single sex spaces. We have been told about how many of them have realised and have stopped coming in.

So, are you even talking about the same group?

I am pointing out issues that maybe you have not considered in the hope that it might start making sense as to why women, who have thought about this deeply and discussed it thoroughly, have the position that they have.

Removing single sex spaces by allowing male people to access them, and removing the language that female people need to describe their own needs, and even censuring women for pointing out that a male person remains a male person - none of these eliminate gender based oppression. It does allow new oppression of female people to occur though.

And you are complicit.

You say this benefits everyone, especially women. How?

How? How does allowing male people to access female single sex spaces benefit ANY female person? It doesn't. It does benefit the male person though. You have centred that male person in this scenario.

I've literally never received a coherent answer, in a decade, as to how it's supposed to benefit women and girls.

I feel that today will not be the day to change this.

So predictable. What's the problem with posting it publically? You've posted tons of other stuff we don't agree with and survived.

I’m the victim of very obvious bullying on this thread , yes. I’ve been called a lot of names, told to fuck off,
accused of being a male sexual predator, a troll, mocked, ganged up on, etc.

I didn’t “demand” answers from anyone. I asked questions of posters, and answered the questions in return that I chose to answer. As everyone on mumsnet does . I clearly explained why I wouldn’t be answering certain questions; meanwhile a number of posters repeatedly harrassed me with the same specific question , demanding I answer it, even after I respectfully declined.

I feel you are right.

There is never a coherent answer.

How would you characterise this message you just wrote to me?

because you're asking us all kinds of pointed questions hoping for a gotcha moment, but you won't answer even the most basic of questions. You must see that?!

“Safe secure and respectful for all colleagues” especially those colleagues who have a penis.

In your fantasy dreams. I don’t know what it is about TRAs which give them some sort of misguided saviour complex. About an issue which lets face it doesn’t affect them directly.

If they’re happy to strip off in front of a male bodied colleague then crack on I don’t care what they do or what they’re happy about. But they do need to recognise they can’t impose those beliefs onto everyone else and make others get changed in front of men.

This is getting a bit silly.

Piggle, if you don't have a definition, that's fine. Saying "I do but I'm not telling you because you're all mean" isn't helping your arguments, really.

No surprise. Standard TRA response, ignore questions and shout louder.

It's very reminiscent of other threads. I guess most of them go the same way.

You only have to look at the news to see headline after headline of violence against women to understand why women don't want men in their private spaces. Doesn't matter what they're wearing

Mean Girls in 2024:

"On Wednesdays we identify as gender fluid."

"If you're a girl, why do you have a penis?"
"Oh my god Karen, you can't just ask people why they have a penis!"

"I'm not a regular mom, I'm a cool non-binary birthing parent!"

"Raise your hand if you've ever been personally victimised by JK Rowling."

"I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school. I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and pronouns and everyone would eat it and be happy."

"Gretchen, stop trying to make cis happen. It's not going to happen."

"Biological sex in humans does not exist!"

"Boo, you TERF."

There is nothing more bullying than telling rape survivors they are 'obsessed with genitals' if they don't want a male getting his erect penis out in the ladies....

im asking questions yes, I’ve also answered a number of questions asked of me.
but yes, I acknowledge that I’ve found it more helpful in this type of debate to ask questions , rather than seek to persuade people - particularly around definitions as everyone knows them anyway.

Why do you have to be so scathing about it? I have two friends, one post-op one pre-op, both are lovely people just getting on with their lives.
Of course I understand that anyone who didn't know them might be uncomfortable, and neither are the political sort to make an issue of access to female only spaces anyway.
I'm not naive, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing changing rooms with a man. I'm just trying to get my head around it all, so many issues involved.
When I first began to hear about these debates I innocently thought that it was a non-issue, nobody who was truely dysphoric would try to use it to gain entry to womens sports, safe spaces etc.
Unfortunately I was so wrong! I just wish we could have discussions with it descending into the hate that it does on both sides.

Nicely done 😂