To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

At Pride London several years ago I said to my friends that I was disappointed to see signs saying no T with the LGB. I'd been to loads of Prides over the years and always supported T to the point where I used to think 'where the harm in changing a birth cert for this tiny minority!'
Then.. I read about Barbie Kardashian...then Allison Bailey...then I started lurking on Feminist boards,,, then here... now, any anime toting, crop top wearing, head tilting, one nail polish on one finger wearing MAN In their teens to 70's simply has to say 'I'm a lesbian/woman' and we women are expected to suspend belief, address them as women they move into our spaces and not speak up??? This isn't anti-trans this is a whole load of very unpleasant men here to enjoy this current trend. We ain't talking April Ashley and Caroline Cossey here, we are talking about men who will go back to men when it suits them. That's their choice, women are powerless in this.

It's a shame genuinely trans people are being exploited by this type.

A delightful interview.

Food for thought. Thanks for your explanation!

Unfortunately my baby is due a feed and currently shouting at the kettle so no more debates for me for now! If the thread hasn't filled up later I'll let you know my thoughts.

I appreciate the time you took to write yours! 🤍

You're right, I was out by a large factor - I can only blame posting before breakfast so I didn't count my zeros.

Thanks for being nice about pointing out my error though, rather than leaping to the attack!

„everyone's basic right to have a nice time enjoying sport”
“trans women should compete as women”

Don’t you see how those two statements potentially contradict each other? You probably don’t.
Women competing against trans women (in elite sports or not) are likely to lose.
Not because they’re less sporty or aren’t trying hard enough, but because they’re generally physically disadvantaged against biological males.
Women playing contact sports with trans women are likely to get hurt.
Doesn’t matter though, right?
As long as “everyone” (i.e. trans women) is having “a nice time enjoying sport”.

Sorry if I’m repeating other people- the thread is so big it’s hard to tell.

Some people who present as trans and expect adaptation and protection as such are indeed pervy men in frocks. Grayson Perry makes no bones about that.
Obviously those types are far more visible than ‘genuine’ transwomen trying to fit in. They do things like wank in my local department store and post photos of themselves on the internet trying on women’s clothes in the women’s changing area and wanking. That is sex offender behaviour that’s been facilitated by accommodations for trans people.

Unfortunately the trans umbrella expanded itself to include cross dressers and part time cross dressers. If it had not then this may not have blown up.

The whole give an inch and they’ll take a mile is fabulously demonstrated in this situation. Tolerance and kindness was extended to those who needed it. A bunch of randoms were welcomed to jump on the bandwagon and women lost their desire to accommodate any of it.

It’s a shame some people ruined it for everyone else.

I don't believe I am anti-trans.

I am a cis woman (don't jump on me for using that word, I think it is useful in this context). I know three trans women, one many years post-op, one very recently post-op and one probably pre-op although I don't know her as well.

The first two are lovely. I know quite a lot about the second one's struggle towards accepting that she was trans, overcoming some lifestyle-related obstacles to starting treatment and now having had treatment and being so much happier. I have no doubt whatsoever that she had genuine reasons for transitioning and has no intention of hurting or defrauding anyone, and that being a woman is what is healthiest for her. The first one, I knew as a woman for a long time before I even knew she was trans. She is oldish and leads a perfectly ordinary life. I have actually been in the dreaded toilets with her (before I knew she was trans) and she certainly didn't try to make a move on me.

The third one is quite an annoying person, but not for reasons specifically to do with being trans. The nearest I ever come to being anti-trans is wishing I didn't feel that I can't be as snappy with this person as I would with a cis person who was equally annoying, because it might be perceived as prejudice.

I will continue not to be anti-trans unless something happens to convince me that the majority of trans people are out to do cis people harm just because they are trans, and that doesn't seem at all likely to me at the moment.

@eatfigs.. That's disgusting.

I don't know if it's been linked but I've read an appalling plea from the daughter of a trans transiter and how she and other people children had to cope with their "dads" getting off on it all.
It's vile.
*I'm sure many genuine trans don't do this.
. But it's definitely a huge fetish for many.
She was pleading for acknowledgement to Parliament over this and how far stonewall training that's everywhere has disadvantaged her and others

I have, and you lied. NOT...ONCE has there even any evidence. You realise we can read the thread, right? So why make such an OBVIOUS LIE?

Live and let live but how you choose to live shouldn't impact me bad my family and vice versa and it certainly shouldn't put anyone else at risk

Having said that.. still pretty rare!

70M people in the UK, 35M women, 0.003 6ft or more = 105k 6' tall women, 0.5% trans so 525 > 6' tall women who identify as trans (including non-binary) in the UK, or one in every other town/one in every 3rd macdonalds.

(all stats a very blunt object! I haven't checked the m vs. f trans identifying rates individually)

This is how I feel.

I don’t think the vast majority of trans women are a threat in the same way that I don’t think most men are a threat. But if a man wanted to use the same changing room as my teenage daughter - even a trusted man - I’d have concerns that he could be a predator in a way that I wouldn’t about a woman. The same stands for trans women, particularly since there have been numerous attempts by predatory men to take advantage of the opportunities that self ID has provided.

I want trans people to feel safe and included but I think that should involve separate spaces for trans women and trans men (To be frank, I’m not sure how safe they are in male spaces either). I discovered recently on tours with my son that several uni’s already have gender neutral toilets and facilities as well as male and female. Why can’t this be the case across the board?

@Frenchie91 - I might identity as a meerkat!

I'm not anti-trans. I'm anti-male-in-women's-spaces.

The whole give an inch and they’ll take a mile is fabulously demonstrated in this situation. Tolerance and kindness was extended to those who needed it. A bunch of randoms were welcomed to jump on the bandwagon and women lost their desire to accommodate any of it. It’s a shame some people ruined it for everyone else
It wasn't 'some people'. An entire ideology was created and promoted by Stonewall et al that said anyone can claim any gender identity and no-one can question it, no matter how they present.
Its simply no accurate to claim a few people ruined it. It is an entire ideology promoted by large lobbying organisations.

THIS TIMES 1000!!

Me too

More women get attacked in these mixed sex spaces than in single sex facilities. There are stats on this.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger/

I think the criticisms of the Swedish study are fair- it is a study from a long time ago, with flawed methodology and a small sample size.

However, saying than transwomen are not a rape risk to biological women is not justifiable given that I can list the names of transwomen who have raped or attempted to rape women and children. Individual transwomen have disproven the idea that transwomen are 'not a rape risk'.

And, of course, the fact that more than 70 percent of transgender prisoners in British jails are serving sentences for sex offences and violent crimes- far higher than the percentage of other males, and of course even higher than that of females.

So then we have separate and distinct facilities for trans males and trans females. My point is that everyone should be safe.

Exactly . When feminists refer to sex crimes committed by trans identified males, we are not saying all TW are rapists. We are disputing the claim that because a man is a TW, he automatically becomes not a risk to women.

The question was are there any other pro trans mumnetters.
I would say the current climate does not allow for that.
As a pp said there have been transpeople winning Eurovision, big brother etc however the issue now is TW versus women.
I am a mother of a trans young adult and the position that my natal female child occupies is difficult. Transphobia is a daily occurrence for her (I say her because she agrees sex is sex). We had all the pronoun nonsense and she had called me transphobic. Her thoughts have changed over a long journey.
What I do see on mumsnet is some seriously disgusting opinions such as dumping friends with a child going through gender issues, it's not catching. It was the same with autism and prior to that being gay when I was a teenager.
I have employed two TW and they both had surgery. Where would they be safest? Not in male loos and the same for FTM. Third spaces are being built in new schools and universities. My DC uses them. However am I a trans alley? I wouldn't be allowed to be! However I don't believe in attacking people who feel and look different. I also don't think discrimination in the workplace should happen unless that person commits a crime. Sex offenders that change gender so I can't trace you? That needs to change. GDPR has a lot to answer for. FIW, I'm a prison visitor and TW are housed separately. They do not share a cell.
For me women are women, men men. TW TW have chosen their names.
MN has been invaluable in bringing the Cass report to the fore. Without it we would still have people affirming children. I don't believe for one minute any surgeon in this country will operate on a child. And thanks be to God for that.