To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

Are you suggesting that by definition it is impossible for a transwoman to be a rapist?

You do know that even rapists/paedophiles in prison have obtained a GRC? There is nothing that precludes a known sex offender from having a GRC, changing his birth certificate, name and sex and erasing his offending history? And no, there are no effective safeguards in place.

First page looks like this:

I see a whole lot of reasonable, well made and unrefuted points about women's needs. Getting cross with women for stating them is probably not going to end in a good resolution really.

I always find these threads reassuring as they really show how so many people with TWAW type arguments have simply not understood the issues. They are arguing from a place of genuine ignorance and false comparators. Well meaning perhaps, but still incredibly ill-informed.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

Transowmen experiance more violence than women

That's because
All men experience more violence than women

Should we allow all Kevin's into all women's spaces simply because Kevin's experience more violence than women ?

Transwomen behave like men in regards committing violence - they behave like men not women and that's why they can be seen as women in sensitive situations

Must feel awful to know that a decent sized chunk of society will never accept you.

Do you mean by 'will never accept you' that there are some women who will never be able to or happy to remove their clothes or meet intimate needs in front of male people?

Is this really a failing of the female people involved?

How about those male people considering how awful it is for a woman to know that a man will never accept her needs, feelings and even her safety as a reason for her to say no to him.

Thank you! I knew someone clever would come along and link to it!

😘

It's a pdf, which is maybe why it's a bit hard to share/find.

@Horseebooks, I empathise with your plaintive wish for a society of perfect equality. It would be lovely if half the human population weren't bigger and stronger than the other half - and, dare I say, if all members of our species could gestate, birth and nurse our young.

Taking a quick look at any other mammal species (and well over half of all animal & vegetable species), however, we can safely predict it's never going to happen.

Removing the conventions of gender won't make it happen, either! I am a gender abolitionist, always have been, because these conventions limit and hamper both sexes as well as being a tool for the oppression of women. We should all be able to do what we like with our potentials for self-expression (within the bounds of decency & safety). But men will still be bigger, stronger and more pugnacious than women, will produce sperm and won't get pregnant.

Trans women are not women, they are men. Male. With penis and testicles. Please stop lying.

'dicking around.' is the perfect choice of phrase to describe Horseebooks' activities here today.

You are entitled to see men as women if you wish, and to choose to undress with whoever you wish.

You are not entitled to enforce this on women who do not perceive a man as a woman, or predicate their reality on what he tells them. Or to punish them for being unwilling or unable to meet the man's needs as the price of access to women's services and resources.

Meet mens needs by all means. Do it without harming and removing services and resources from women and we're fine.

What's the problem with meeting women's needs and feelings too?

I'm referring to murder because it's the easiest crime to gather statistics for. It's difficult to hide a body, and in this day and age when every murder victim's phone and online footprint will be pored over by police investigators, it's easy to tell when a victim was trans.

Regarding the research about the rates of domestic violence, I would point out that the research has been conducted by Stonewall, which is a special interest lobby group with a particular focus on trans people. They aren't going out, reaching out to vulnerable women in difficult to reach communities and trying to find out whether the rate of domestic violence in the general (non trans) population is underreported. Stonewall is also very far from neutral in this area so I would always take their research with a large pinch of salt.

As for hate crimes, obviously the rate of hate crimes against trans people is higher than the rate of hate crimes against women, because crimes against women are not classed as hate crimes. So only women who have another particular characteristic (such as being a lesbian or ethnic minority) can be the victim of a hate crime.

I'd also be very cautious about any research about "hate crimes" which are not reported to the police. How can we be sure that the things which are not being reported are actually hate crimes? What is a hate crime in the eyes of a victim is not necessarily a hate crime in the eyes of the law. (Misgendering, for example.)

One thing where I do agree with you is that we need better crime statistics. And that means we need to be recording the sex of both perpetrators and victims, regardless of how either of them identifies.

Don't be ridiculous. Isla Bryson is obviously a trans woman. She meets the only criterion for deciding, which is that she says she is. Its very transphobic to refuse to believe her.

Thanks so much for adding a picture. That was very sweet of you, I was reading the right thing!

What do you think of this?

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/21023/html/

A key point she makes is the study is “certainly not saying that we found that trans women were a rape risk” to cis women. Additionally, the study was not focused on investigating criminal behaviour, was drawn from a small cohort in one country, and only indicated a statistically significant increased risk of conviction for trans people who ‘underwent sex reassignment before 1989’:

Dhejne then further divides this cohort into those who transitioned between 1973 and 1988, and those who transitioned between 1989 and 2003, and finds no statistical difference in conviction rates (rather than criminal behaviour) using the raw statistics between the later transitioners and cis women.

I would’ve liked to reply to @Garlickest (Im not plaintive, just optimistic!) but I draw the fucking line at being accused of being a man because you don’t agree with me. Seriously have a word with yourself.

Female - xx chromosome
Male - xy chromosome
Transwomen = xy chromosome = male

Simples.

Could be worse. I was once accused of being Owen Jones

Is it "anti-trans" to be appalled at this?

This is a male writing:

Are you a meercat?

No, pet. I wasn't calling you a man, so you can save the performative outrage. I was saying your arguments centre penis-based supremacy.

I'm not anti trans at all, but I am pro women and don't feel this trans status should in the slightest, merest way EVER impact women and girls.

According to Nicola Sturgeon, Isla Bryson is "rapist gender".

Rape is a crime that can only be committed by a male perpetrator under UK law.

Why is it so difficult for Nicola Sturgeon to just say that Isla Bryson is a man?