To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

well, on your second point, I totally agree

'I think back in the day (the day being around the 90s) very few people had an issue. A transwoman won Eurovision, a transwoman won Big Brother and no one batted an eyelid.'

Exactly. Transvestites have been around for ever. We will have all seen men in dresses when we were younger and accepted it. Their choice etc.

It's the whole trans activism crap that is so divisive. A man in a dress and makeup is a transperson and should be accepted/tolerated as so. It doesn't make them a woman allowed access to female only places. It shouldn't be rocket science.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

There's also this article.

Trans women have at least the same offending pettens as men. They are actually overrepresented in prisons for violent and sexual crimes, so yes they are at least as much a threat as men. So they have to be treated as such.

90% of trans women in prisons revert to being men when they leave.

Mary Mallon claimed she had never hurt anyone but she was quarantined for 30 years. That was for the safety of the general population. I'm sure her feelings were hurt.

We have sex segregation for fairness in sports but also for the dignity of women.

Suicide rates in trans people are no higher than any other group, if fact less than some groups,

I have to admit that I find it difficult to relate to people who think that the safety and dignity of female rape victims and prisoners is less important than "trans rights", but draw the line at sport.

Losing your chance to go to the Olympics because Laurel Hubbard was allowed to qualify is terrible, yes. But is it worse than being raped in prison by Karen White?

You forgot the bit about exceptions dear.

I got told on another social media site that it's "transphobic" to object to males taking drugs to induce lactation so they can have a go at breastfeeding infants. And I see similar sentiment on this thread.

Seems to me that "anti-trans" just means not letting these men do whatever they want, whenever they want. Pfft.

Really? You appear to want to define and classify people according to gender stereotypes instead of sex.

Personally I don’t see a grey area on any of em but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with talking about it. I think there’s something wrong with shouting other people down and trying to make them look stupid

It mentions the Swedish study at the top, yes, although it's referencing it- it links to the Swedish study.

I absolutely agree with you. This thread has been extremely heated! I'm always interested to hear other people's opinions and I definitely don't think I have all the answers.

At risk of what? If men cannot be trusted to behave when a man dressed as a woman enters their space, then thats on the men to deal with. Women are not human shields for any type of man!

So do we prioritise the feelings of this one man, or the feelings of the many women who would otherwise have him forced upon them?

Women matter as much as men do.

It's not a majority viewpoint on Mumsnet though, which is precisely why Mumsnet is constantly accused of being transphobic.

If supporting women's rights is transphobic, a lot of the content on the biggest website for women in the UK is going to be transphobic according to that definition.

Do I? I think I’ve been pretty clear about thinking it’s good if everything becomes a lot looser so not sure how you got that impression.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

February 2024.

'More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners in British jails are serving sentences for sex offences and violent crimes, government figures have revealed.
At least 181 of the 244 transgender inmates, more than 74 per cent, are in jail for crimes including rape, forcing under-age children into having sex, grievous bodily harm and robbery.
Up to 144 transgender women, men who identify as females, are housed in male prisons while five are currently imprisoned in female jails - including at least one top-security institution where murderers and terrorists are being detained.'

You're advocating for all services to be mixed sex and for any equity-based provisions for women's rights to be removed.

Definitions aren't supposed to be loose. They're supposed to be meaningful.

How does expanding the scope of what it means to be a woman to include male people benefit women? I can see how it benefits the male people who want it, but how does it benefit the women to be redefined in this way?

That's Stonewall for you.

They say a lot of things and they get repeated, again and again. But it doesn't make it true.

It's like the JKR is transphobic. But no one can find anything she has said or done that is. In fact if you can find n example there is a £1 million prize.

Don't forget the, 'misgendering is literal violence to trans people', which it literally isn't.

'The year ending March 2020 was the last time the CSEW collected such data on sexual violence and abuse. 98% of adults prosecuted for sexual offences are men.'

https://cambridgerapecrisis.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Sources-for-website-stats-May-2023.pdf

A question for the manwomen fans to ponder ...

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

734.Single sex services are permitted where:

only people of that sex require it;

there is joint provision for both sexes but that is not sufficient on its own;

if the service were provided for men and women jointly, it would not be as effective and it is not reasonably practicable to provide separate services for each sex;

they are provided in a hospital or other place where users need special attention (or in parts of such an establishment);

they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa); or

they may involve physical contact between a user and someone else and that other person may reasonably object if the user is of the opposite sex.

“Why do some women pander to men so much, to an extent where they deny reality and try and make everyone do the same”

Some men are masters at gaslighting.

Because we’re taught to protect the feelings of men from an early age.

Because we’re taught to always be nice.

Thanks for the info!

I am a bit confused about why you are fixated on murder, there are crimes that aren't lethal too.

A couple of things jump out at me from what you've provided:

Until we have those official statistics, we should handle the data we do have with care. Anyone that tells you this is clear-cut – on either side of this often vexed debate – is wrong.

The charity’s research reports that 19 per cent of trans people say they have experienced domestic abuse from a partner in the last year. That’s higher than the recorded rate of domestic abuse among the wider population – 7.9 per cent of women and 4.2 per cent of men, according to the latest ONS data.

four in five trans people who experience hate crime don’t report it to the police.

I think the main problem is that he statistics don't exist, and with the lack of reporting we will likely never get a full picture.

I still think trans people are more likely to be victims of crimes rather than the instigator based on the information you have provided.

Do you have any sources that disprove it?