To be shocked not to be told trans student sharing bedroom on school trips

[rosesrredviolets]

DD aged 15 shared a bedroom with a trans girl (born a boy) on a school trip. Dd only found out the sleeping arrangements whilst on the trip and we only found out later. I presumed that trans students would have their own bedrooms at this age. Am shocked not to have at least been asked by school in advance. However it would appear that the policy given to schools is that sharing is fine.

@Helleofabore surely as soon as we start using equivalents of “cis” we are legitimising the notion that there’s trans and … other?

Saying "birth registered female" isn't the same as "cis woman" though, is it? Because it includes trans men and female born non binary people.

The objective is to have a word which means all female born people, however they identify, and which excludes all male born people, however they identify, and does not use nonsensical language like "assigned at birth".

I hear you.

When it comes to discussing issues that do depend on prioritising sex over gender, using the words that relate to sex cuts through and keeps the focus on why it is important.

I would never use the word ‘cis’ because it forces a falsely imposed hierarchy. I agree that it is offensive and I go further to say that when it is used so often to support harm to female people specifically or in general , it is misogynistic.

Whereas ‘female people’ is often clumsy, it is forced formality and detached in tone for sure. However, I think it is precise and sadly needed at this time.

As I used in the example, ‘this girl should never have been sharing a room with a girl’ doesn’t work. ‘This boy should never have been sharing with a girl’ can be taken by some that a female child with a trans identity shouldn’t share with other female children. It also opens the discussion up to accusations of ‘misgendering’ and cycles of distracting discussion and could be deleted anyway.

I have been caught in cycles of distraction and deletion before. I now rather get to the point I am trying to make and have it remain up.

No need for even that. There's plenty of non-segregated sports - maybe less so in schools that often focus on traditional athletics and team sports. Certainly most martial arts have joint training and many of them aren't "sportified" to even hold competitions. (Obviously changing would still be sex segregated for all of them.)

You do realise that sex matters in our society, don't you? It's of crucial relevance to girls and women because 98% of sexual offences are committed by males and 90% of victims are female.

A 'trans female' fifteen year old has not undergone surgery. They have a penis. They are male. I think there is plenty of evidence that fifteen year old girls would be more at risk from sharing accommodation with a male than with a female. Otherwise why would the school separate boys and girls? It's not because of their clothes or their interests or even their emotions. It's because of their sex and the inherent imbalance of power. You're prioritising one person's feelings over material reality and you're wilfully blind to the dangers of that. It's actually terrifying.

And flex, I would agree with you that using the word ‘trans’ as a descriptor can reduce meaningful discussion. Look at how someone has used ‘trans female’. Unless we know the context, as we do here, who knows what sex that person is if it is relevant to the discussion.

I'm glad that this thread is on AIBU, there is no thread I think that is clearer in the motives of the trans activists.

It is obvious which humans matter, it is not the female ones.

Disgusting.

BedBugs5 Cis female students? You mean girls?

@sashh

Regarding your concern about Muslim students, this actually came up in a case reported earlier this year on German Twitter. Planned school trip - this would probably be a single class group so give or take 30 students. Three male students relatively recently began to identify as trans and insist on being placed in the girls' dormitory. A room to themselves not acceptable. School leadership keeps conspicuously shtum. In consequence, several Muslim girls are withdrawn from the trip by their parents. Class teacher ends up canceling the entire trip (teachers technically have to volunteer for residential.) And the follow-up a few weeks later - all three male students have now desisted and are back to being full time boys.

Yes, that's a horrible and disrespectful way to refer to girls.

So they are the reason why the whole class can't have nice things.

This is a direct result of the shoddy inclusion toolkits sold to schools. Previously boys only shared with boys and girls with girls. Then trans activists started writing inclusion guidelines and selling them to schools so schools could achieve rainbow awards. The government is trying to reverse this with their guidance that was recently published and consulted on. Unfortunately trans activist teachers and their union are trying to undermine this safeguarding.
Organisations that can help you are Sex Matters, Transgender Trend and Safe Schools Alliance. I’d complain to the school, governors, contact Ofsted and the Education Secretary Gillian Keegan MP. By the time this is investigated I’d want whoever signed the safeguarding plans for the trip to be needing a new job and not one that allows them access to children.
There is no excuse for this safeguarding fail and your daughter should never have been put in this position. We have to stop the lies being told to children. Boys will never be girls and vice versa.

If your school is separating sexes for PE then yes, there is a problem in allowing even one male into the group depending on the sport. I know at my teens’s high school the girls learned rugby. All it takes is one male in the team.

https://www.kuam.com/story/46261367/tiyan-rugby-coach-calls-for-ban-on-transgender-players-after-injuries-at-weekend-match

Here is a life changing injury in volleyball.

https://talk.tv/top-stories/12380/transgender-riley-gaines-payton-mcbann-volleyball-video-biological-male

In Sydney, football teams have reported serious injuries with male athletes on female football teams. Now this is not school, but some teams had teenagers playing. And the team had five males playing but again, it only takes one to cause injuries.

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-women-drop-out-of-australian-football-division-after-five-trans-identified-males-dominate-womens-league-leave-female-players-injured/

Basketball too

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13105605/amp/Trans-basketball-high-school-game-injury-forfeit-Massachusetts.html

If you want help formulating a complaint about sport, I suggest a great place to start would be FairPlay for women, if you reached out they might send you the information.

Can I just say a big thank you to all those who are sticking up for our girls and us women. Som very eloquently written replies, and it is so refreshing to hear a point of view that aligns with mine.

I am still fuming at Bedbug5's post. I know many have responded to it, now I've found where it was, but I will still have to put fingers to keyboard. Let alone the use of "cis". I am not "cis", no other born woman is "cis" and I shouldn't have to put born in there.

But why does the blithering male idiot state that the trans boy should be the priority? Why shouldn't the girl have any choice in the matter? Why shouldn't she, with her female needs, have any input? Why does the chosen unusual life choice of the boy obliterate any right she has to be treated with respect as a fully human human.

But we know why. This person who identifies himself as an insect who needs pest control does not recognise her as human in any way. Just as a CGI Sim with no existence as a person with thoughts and feelings which count as much as those of the male born. Forget support human. Just support. Rant over. It doesn't do any good.

@rosesrredviolets If you want to challenge the school policy but are worried about accusations of transphobia; you can challenge them about their attitude to girls who are survivors of or living with sexual abuse.
Girls should not have to disclose abuse to be given a single sex room. The rooms should be single sex by default. Their attitude is likely to make girls think twice about asking them for support, and that goes against safeguarding principles.

And the school allocates the rooms, so of course they don't have to disclose what genitals another child has to any parents. The accusation is ridiculous.

Reality.

It's a thing.

@rosesrredviolets

Perhaps you can start with your school by asking to see their transgender inclusion policy.

Do you know what is happening regarding toilets at your daughter's school? You could also ask specifically about the toilet usage policy, changing room and the sports policy.

You could also ask what changes they have made since the Schools Guidance came out or at least, what they propose.

I am sure that there are more experienced people on this thread that could advise you how best to do this and when to introduce the complaint about your daughter sharing a room with a male person on this trip. But these other issues can at least be part of your wider discussion too.

WTF is this BS? Can you please explain in detail and with evidence the difference between a 15 year old boy and a 15 year old transgirl?

Do you think all bedrooms and bathrooms should be co-ed on secondary school trips? Do you also think school toilets, changing rooms and sports should be completely co-ed too?

Wow, plenty of rape apologists here.

@rosesrredviolets I think in your complaint to the school I would start with the fact that girls share with girls and boys share with boys, for safeguarding reasons. We all know what those safeguarding reasons are. It's largely around the fact that no one wants their teenage daughter to come home from a school trip having engaged in any kind of sexual activity, whether consensual or non-consensual. Of course, this could happen between children of the same sex as well, but at least there would be no obvious physical power imbalance, and obviously no risk of pregnancy.

None of the safeguarding reasons for girls sharing with girls and boys sharing with boys cease to apply just because a male student identifies as a girl. In the eyes of the law, this student is a boy. Medically, this student is a boy. There is no legal or physical difference between this student and any boy in the class.

So why has the school decided that the normal rules of safeguarding, which they are presumably applying to the other students given that girls are sharing with girls and boys are sharing with boys, do not apply to your daughter?

Why was your daughter not considered deserving of the same level of safeguarding as the other students?

Appalling failure in safeguarding.

OP, you are not being unreasonable. The school has a duty to safeguard female students, and to protect their right to privacy and dignity. Some schools UK have faced legal challenge on these issues, according to an Article in the Guardian. Link to legal opinion.