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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be shocked not to be told trans student sharing bedroom on school trips

404 replies

rosesrredviolets · 20/04/2024 19:10

DD aged 15 shared a bedroom with a trans girl (born a boy) on a school trip. Dd only found out the sleeping arrangements whilst on the trip and we only found out later. I presumed that trans students would have their own bedrooms at this age. Am shocked not to have at least been asked by school in advance. However it would appear that the policy given to schools is that sharing is fine.

OP posts:
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nothingcomestonothing · 21/04/2024 20:52

rosesrredviolets · 21/04/2024 20:40

I have no confidence it would be kept secret. I am certain they would speak to DD and all her friends would then know especially if it results in changes for PE or sports teams.

If you genuinely think that your DDs school would tell the students the substance and instigator of a concern about safeguarding, you have even bigger problems than this issue.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2024 20:55

Lex345 · 21/04/2024 20:49

I for one am getting very, very angry that I am constantly having the label "cis" impose upon me. I am not "cis" anything.

I am a woman.

Respect of labels and preferred pronouns works BOTH WAYS.

Respect of labels and preferred pronouns goes both ways

It really doesn't though does it?

Trans ideology has no respect for women. We are forced to accept things that harm us & our children and are called bigots if we don't.

The trans women who cannot respect our boundaries to single sex spaces and the fact that we need words to collectively describe ourselves have no respect for women despite claiming to BE women.

LuciferRising · 21/04/2024 20:57

Tandora · 20/04/2024 19:25

Are you saying the school should have outed this child to you? The genitalia of another child is absolutely none of your concern. YABU.

This is a dangerous thing to say. It puts girls at risk.

muggart · 21/04/2024 21:00

Tandora · 20/04/2024 19:25

Are you saying the school should have outed this child to you? The genitalia of another child is absolutely none of your concern. YABU.

Would you say the same if the OP's DD was sharing with a regular boy? or is it only "trans" ones that get special rights?

TheKeatingFive · 21/04/2024 21:01

nothingcomestonothing · 21/04/2024 20:52

If you genuinely think that your DDs school would tell the students the substance and instigator of a concern about safeguarding, you have even bigger problems than this issue.

I agree with this

The school sounds like a basket case OP. I'm not sure I'd want my daughter there any longer.

Ohgollymolly · 21/04/2024 21:01

That’s crazy.

I wouldn’t want my daughter sharing a room with a mentally ill boy.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 21/04/2024 21:04

Trans students are some of the most marginalised and discriminated against in the country. Clearly they cannot sleep with cis male students and I don’t see why they should be ostracised by having to have an individual room.

Baffling. Why is it 'clear' that a biologically male student cannot sleep with other male students, but it's fine for girls to sleep with that biologically male student? Why is it always women and girls who have to shut up, #bekind and make allowances so that men and boys can have their preferences and desires catered to?

WearyAuldWumman · 21/04/2024 21:42

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 21/04/2024 21:04

Trans students are some of the most marginalised and discriminated against in the country. Clearly they cannot sleep with cis male students and I don’t see why they should be ostracised by having to have an individual room.

Baffling. Why is it 'clear' that a biologically male student cannot sleep with other male students, but it's fine for girls to sleep with that biologically male student? Why is it always women and girls who have to shut up, #bekind and make allowances so that men and boys can have their preferences and desires catered to?

Thank you.

I'm struggling to understand why it's unsafe for a trans identified boy to sleep in the same room as boys, but safe for a girl to sleep in the same room as a trans identified boy.

Pomegranatecarnage · 21/04/2024 22:00

OnHerSolidFoundations · 20/04/2024 22:42

Totally different!

Yes, I know it’s totally different. My point was that even though it’s a totally different situation, it was discussed beforehand and everyone was informed.

Lex345 · 21/04/2024 22:02

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2024 20:55

Respect of labels and preferred pronouns goes both ways

It really doesn't though does it?

Trans ideology has no respect for women. We are forced to accept things that harm us & our children and are called bigots if we don't.

The trans women who cannot respect our boundaries to single sex spaces and the fact that we need words to collectively describe ourselves have no respect for women despite claiming to BE women.

I wouldn't dream of imposing a label on another person. Some women may not mind the label cis. That is their choice and I respect it.

I do not.

It is grossly unfair to demand of me, us, to respect a pronoun of someone else and simultaneously demand I, we, accept a label I neither identify with nor asked for. I will say it again, one vulnerable group's rights do not over ride another.

One protected characteristic does nor over ride another.

Women have had their rights eroded for millenia.

Yet I will be as respectful and supportive as you could want me to be.
Don't diminish my identity in the process.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2024 23:32

Lex345 · 21/04/2024 22:02

I wouldn't dream of imposing a label on another person. Some women may not mind the label cis. That is their choice and I respect it.

I do not.

It is grossly unfair to demand of me, us, to respect a pronoun of someone else and simultaneously demand I, we, accept a label I neither identify with nor asked for. I will say it again, one vulnerable group's rights do not over ride another.

One protected characteristic does nor over ride another.

Women have had their rights eroded for millenia.

Yet I will be as respectful and supportive as you could want me to be.
Don't diminish my identity in the process.

Lex I agree, I am sorry I shouldn't have quoted you in that post, I was just picking up with what you said and how awful this is all for women, which you know.

Nevermind31 · 21/04/2024 23:40

My teenage daughter would not be sharing a room with a penis, no matter how much the penis thinks he is a vagina.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 22/04/2024 00:01

rosesrredviolets · 21/04/2024 20:22

The more I look into this the more I think DD will have to leave the school if I complain as the young people dont understand any concerns and genuinely think it is transphobic to have a concern and will blame DD for reporting it or having a transphobic mother.

Those saying 15 year olds should not be doing PE together either - is this correct? It is standard for trans girls in DDs school to do all PE with the girls and be in the girls school sports teams. The girls all seem to think that is fine despite the potential injuries that parents might have a concern about. I have no idea what other schools think or if they know but I guess as we always lose it may be less of a concern to them. I presumed all schools were the same as ours - it is just reading previous posts on here that make me query it now.

No, 15 year olds should not be divided by gender rather than sex for sports. For virtually all competitive events it's unfair; for contact sports it's unfair and unsafe.

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 00:46

rosesrredviolets · 21/04/2024 20:22

The more I look into this the more I think DD will have to leave the school if I complain as the young people dont understand any concerns and genuinely think it is transphobic to have a concern and will blame DD for reporting it or having a transphobic mother.

Those saying 15 year olds should not be doing PE together either - is this correct? It is standard for trans girls in DDs school to do all PE with the girls and be in the girls school sports teams. The girls all seem to think that is fine despite the potential injuries that parents might have a concern about. I have no idea what other schools think or if they know but I guess as we always lose it may be less of a concern to them. I presumed all schools were the same as ours - it is just reading previous posts on here that make me query it now.

Of course boys shouldn’t be playing on all girls teams!

Do they use the same changing rooms too?

If these boys don’t want to play sports on the boys teams, they need to quit sports.

sashh · 22/04/2024 03:48

BedBugs5 · 21/04/2024 08:49

@TheKeatingFive

Where is the evidence that there is any more risk to girls’ safety from this individual than any other girl?

Because he is a biological male who is attracted to females. It's not just safety is it? It is also about dignity.

tiredinoratia · 22/04/2024 03:58

Genuine curiosity. What risk is there and why is everyone so up in arms?

Did anything actually happen or is this simply the fear of the unknown.

It seems to me the hyperbole is the most dangerous thing here.

I just can't get riled up about this.

CountZacular · 22/04/2024 04:36

Trans students are some of the most marginalised and discriminated against in the country.

Genuinely, what does this mean? In what way are trans students the most marginalised and discriminated against?

sashh · 22/04/2024 04:54

tiredinoratia · 22/04/2024 03:58

Genuine curiosity. What risk is there and why is everyone so up in arms?

Did anything actually happen or is this simply the fear of the unknown.

It seems to me the hyperbole is the most dangerous thing here.

I just can't get riled up about this.

Because boys and girls should not be sharing rooms on school trips. Teachers and students shouldn't share rooms either.

Would you like to dress / undress in front of a male who is not a relative or close friend? Say a work colleague?

Also the boy is at risk of the girls making an accusation.

Was he getting changed or did he expose himself to the girls?

And yes he is a boy, no matter how he identifies he is a biological male under the age of 18.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/04/2024 05:55

tiredinoratia · 22/04/2024 03:58

Genuine curiosity. What risk is there and why is everyone so up in arms?

Did anything actually happen or is this simply the fear of the unknown.

It seems to me the hyperbole is the most dangerous thing here.

I just can't get riled up about this.

Why don't you read the thread as this has been answered.

Rosscameasdoody · 22/04/2024 06:04

Tandora · 20/04/2024 19:25

Are you saying the school should have outed this child to you? The genitalia of another child is absolutely none of your concern. YABU.

The genitalia of another child absolutely are a concern where the child is essentially male and sharing a room with females. It’s not about ‘outing’ it’s a safeguarding issue.

user1470899178 · 22/04/2024 06:26

Wow, plenty of transphobia here!

Rosscameasdoody · 22/04/2024 06:27

user1470899178 · 22/04/2024 06:26

Wow, plenty of transphobia here!

Why is it transphobic ?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/04/2024 06:27

user1470899178 · 22/04/2024 06:26

Wow, plenty of transphobia here!

Try harder.

TheHereticalOne · 22/04/2024 06:43

BedBugs5 · 21/04/2024 18:31

The key point for me is that there is no evidence that cis female students are at any more risk from sharing accommodation with a trans female student than a cis student of the same gender.

Trans students are some of the most marginalised and discriminated against in the country. Clearly they cannot sleep with cis male students and I don’t see why they should be ostracised by having to have an individual room.

The needs of the trans individual should be prioritised. In most cases, that will mean being accommodated alongside cis female students. In some cases, it may be appropriate for a trans student to sleep separately, but this should be done following discussions with the individual and their parents.

Schools certainly shouldn’t be broadcasting intimate personal information regarding trans status to other parents.

You know, I remember years ago discussions on mumsnet about the corruption of the word 'woman' to include men who want to be accepted as women and the concern about women's words to talk about ourselves being removed.

Some posters thought that this was an over-reaction and that we should include those men under the definition of 'woman' and "be kind" because, anyway, we still had the word 'female' to describe ourselves.

Some posters pointed out that once these men had successfully colonised the word 'woman' to redefine it as anyone who "identifies as a woman" (based on whatever they individually believe 'womanly feelings' to be) they would absolutely come for the word 'female'. This was because the whole point is that it is unacceptable to those men for women to define themselves as anything different from them and they wanted to obfusticate the issues that arise from said "identification" and make it difficult to discuss in plain language.

In other words, the appeasement position of "oh, just give them this and hopefully they'll leave us alone" was doomed to fail and Poland would, indeed, be invaded.

This was seen in many quarters to be an extremist, conspiracy-theory-esque position and suspicion at the time.

But here you are.

You would be less confused and will understand the issues better if you remember that what you call "trans female students" are in fact "trans male students", but something tells me you have some vested interest in obscuring that very simple truth.

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