To wonder why some women Aren’t upset about men being in their safe spaces?

[Lion400]

Why would we make it easier for men to be in our safe spaces? Don’t twist my words. This is not about being anti trans women - this is about men not being in women’s safe spaces. Why should women have to allow men in so as to ‘save their feelings’? What about women’s safety, feelings and wishes?

Given stories such as these - examples only but they quite clearly demonstrate the issue. As if anyone needs this. The stats are easily available.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shana-grice-murder-stalking-police-sussex-a8862611.html?fbclid=IwAR0bJYAs849f0I9VFv7tHw3aguB5C8HZi3yyOMr4LxxIRURs0HBxrc_TxzE

And now the disappointing John Lewis (aka Stonewall) disaster.

https://www.jamesesses.com/p/the-trans-takeover-of-john-lewis

Who puts women first, apart from JKR and friends. It’s a limited list.

Why is the issue deeply rooted? It shouldn't be. They nerd to accept that they need to use the space which aligns with their biological sex. If that's not acceptable, they can campaign for their own spaces like women had to.

This is not about being anti trans. There are many men who identify as women who I admire.

So hide it
No

So blame the “powers that be”, not someone like me who is just going to the toilet in the one named ‘women’.

I have never, and would never say ‘trans women are a danger as a result’. I’m not about demonising people who just want to live their life.
Again, some men will and have taken advantage of this situation.
I am about women’s rights. Same as JKR. She’s not demonising trans women and neither am I.

There are some women who enable it. Like I said, there should be outcry from all women and from men too, If not just because it's wrong, but for the safety of their mothers, sisters, daughters etc.

‘Bore off’ - hide it - no

It’s not compulsory

lol.

I would support female only spaces remaining female only but I don’t feel strongly enough to create an “outcry”. I’d sign a petition but I can’t say it’s my top 5 concerns. The trouble is, on some of these threads, if you’re not stamping your feet and making noise, you’re “enabling”.

I have never, and would never say ‘trans women are a danger as a result’. I’m not about demonising people who just want to live their life
Again, some men will and have taken advantage of this situation
I am about women’s rights. Same as JKR. She’s not demonising trans men and neither am I

Glad to hear that. Some are.

Why can’t we have women and men and broaden each class to include all?

I'm not sure how many times this has to be said.

No one is being fucking demonised, dehumanised or any other hyperbolic shite like that.

The fact remains that transwomen retain the same level of offending as men. There are many, many sets of stats that back this up. It is a fact.
What is also a fact is that there are many disgusting human beings that are parading as trans simply to gain access to women's spaces.
I could fill this thread with news reports about these men.

This IS NOT saying that all transwomen are predators. I'm not sure why some people keep parroting this crap. It's like talking with a 6th former.

This is basic safeguarding.

Unfortunately some people's feelings are going to have to be hurt to try and safeguard women and girls from being sexually abused or killed.
Feelings Vs lives??

3rd spaces all the way. Then those that don't care about sharing their spaces with penises when they are in a vulnerable state can do so.
It would actually be an excellent way of seeding out the bad people using their "trans" status to gain access to women's spaces. If a third option is provided where they don't have to use the mens and they still insist on going into the women's...then I think that's your wrong 'un, right there.

Well you'll be pleased to know then that men are no more of a danger than TW. So you can now campaign for the complete removal of single sex spaces. Good news!

It's deeply rooted because the only "men" people have this debate about are trans

No woman is advocating for men living as men to be allowed into their spaces

Try talking to some trans people about how hard they find toilets and see.

Thank you💯

I think some people purposefully ‘misunderstand’. Because it really is perfectly clear.

The other people who are equally focused on this will roll up soon and we'll be going through the same recycled stuff all over again.

Do you conflate the men around you with the men who hurt you? if yes then what's the difference with TW? they're no less likely to hurt you or other women. If you're just saying you don't conflate people around you with the men who hurt you then fair enough but different traumas play out in different ways.

Don’t forget the posters who post they’re not interested like this one

But there's nothing to stop 'men living as men' entering women's spaces by simply saying they identify as women, whether they actually believe that or not. This is the point about self ID being a dangerous concept because predatory men will use it as a way to gain access to women, and vulnerable women in particular in places such as hospitals and prisons.

Try talking to women about how hard they find it not having single sex spaces anymore and then see. I don't know what 'living as a woman' means. Can you clarify?

The other people who are equally focused on this will roll up soon and we'll be going through the same recycled stuff all over again
Seems they already have

This whole 'they've always just been able to enter public spaces'. Yes, but previously you would automatically think 'hang on a second, they shouldn't be in here'. Your senses would be up, if you were brave or so inclined you could challenge such a person. Personally I would just roll my eyes but I'd still be aware that they shouldn't be in there.

Now with self ID, you can't. You don't have that right. Unless you want to be called a bigot.

Honestly, any difficulty men find with public toilets isn't my issue. They are men, and need to stay out of female spaces.

Are you not here then 😂

I guess for me personally, I feel that I have been abused by men so many times in my life, that to assume there even are any 'safe spaces' is something I've never actually encountered. The only safe space is knowing you can trust people, which can of course be difficult.
Predatory men will do their thing. I don't think they are more likely to do so if they wear a dress. I'm anti trans-women in female sport, in women's refuges and they should have a separate section in prisons. (Ideally). But I don't feel threatened by trans-women any more than regular men. If that makes vague sense?

I think it may in part be because of a search for answers which the MRAs refuse to give. E.g what's a woman, what does it mean to live as a woman, do you know that TW are as dangerous to women as other males. Stuff which is central to the 'case' to dismantle female protections but which supporters of that backwards step don't seem able to answer. I guess the hope is that there may be even just one semi reasonable MRA who is willing to explain the logic on which the homophobic and sexist gender ideology movement is built on.