To wonder why some women Aren’t upset about men being in their safe spaces?

[Lion400]

Why would we make it easier for men to be in our safe spaces? Don’t twist my words. This is not about being anti trans women - this is about men not being in women’s safe spaces. Why should women have to allow men in so as to ‘save their feelings’? What about women’s safety, feelings and wishes?

Given stories such as these - examples only but they quite clearly demonstrate the issue. As if anyone needs this. The stats are easily available.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shana-grice-murder-stalking-police-sussex-a8862611.html?fbclid=IwAR0bJYAs849f0I9VFv7tHw3aguB5C8HZi3yyOMr4LxxIRURs0HBxrc_TxzE

And now the disappointing John Lewis (aka Stonewall) disaster.

https://www.jamesesses.com/p/the-trans-takeover-of-john-lewis

Who puts women first, apart from JKR and friends. It’s a limited list.

I don't care why some people disagree. They're not insults. They are literally the only feasible reasons I can think of as to why some women don't care about men using our facilities ablnd services. There has been about insults thrown at the OP. People are allowed to make threads about whatever they want. Others for have to read them, they can just move onto the next.

The point is that a Trans ‘woman’ isn’t Female and you can’t tell if he’s harmless or an AGP or a predator in disguise.
That’s why we have safeguarding and single Sex spaces because we can’t tell.
The chances of coming across a Female predator are vanishingly remote.

All-Unisex toilets in a workplace or school are illegal, a Woman has just won compensation from an employer who didn’t provide single Sex loos.

Here’s an idea then, if it irritates you, don’t click on it.

Pre pandemic, my workplace had male and female toilets. I've recently returned to the office and found that most of these have been changed to gender neutral. So aside from being a proponent of single sex toilets from a safety point of view, they fucking stink now to boot.

How can you tell a man from a transwoman? Don’t you know what self ID is?

I'm rarely upset by things on this site, but i do just have to take exception to one response to my comment
It might be easy to assume that i have no experience of sexual assault and that is why i don't care about trans women in "my" space (as a previous post/thread has)
That's not true, and despite my experiences ive still never conflated the trans women around me in support groups with the men who hurt me. Its insulting to assume all survivors do, even if some do.
Its beyond infuriating to have a personal experience weaponised and generalised when it isn't my experience at all

The vast majority of trans people are not a threat to women. Men who are born as men and still identify as men, more so. Those are the ones we should be paying attention to. I have never been harassed by a trans person. I have by men who were born as men.

How does one tell the difference between a harmless trans woman (male) from a male who wants to do us harm? Both are males. Does the risk automatically lessen because they start presenting in a way that makes them feel like a woman? No it doesn't.

Hence why sex segregation exists.

Sent too soon as ever! That self-id is essentially 'I say I'm a woman and you must unquestioningly accept that.' This is what organisations like Stonewall are advocating. No transition, no change to outward appearance, no gender recognition certificate necessary. Just an 'inner sense' of femaleness. That any bloke can just say this and we're supposed to fall into line and if we question it we're bigots. And access to services across many sectors are being organised on this basis. The safe guarding risks are obvious. It's not about trans, it's about any man saying the magic words and having access.

Even if that were true, if you were interested in having a constructive discussion there are different ways to say those things.

You’re annoyed that people don’t agree with you, maybe try and understand why rather than insult them?

If that’s aimed at me, you grossly twisted what I said and it’s disgusting to accuse me of weaponising it. I never claimed to speak for everyone, I said I was disappointed that those who say they don’t care, aren’t considering women and GIRLS especially who are struggling to deal with their abuse and how this can make it harder for them.

Some ministry of justice data from 2020 for those with their fingers in their ears...

76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen in prison = 58.9%

125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%

13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%

I'm not for a second suggesting that transwomen are inherently predatory

But clearly, a lot of very bad people are indeed using this as a loop hole. The figures speak for themselves.

Therefore no men in female spaces. Ever.
No thank you.

No, I'm annoyed that this is even being allowed and I'm annoyed at the women who enable it. We fought hard for our rights. Once upon a time, women didn't even have public toilets to use and then the men come along demanding access. Well no!

Interesting.

Women aren't "enabling" anything. There have never been strict controls over who could go into women's toilets (or mens toilets for that matter), only social convention. Which frequently gets flexed for things like plumbers, security staff, women with male children etc.

No don’t ’bore off’

People can hide threads it’s not hard

Well then you’re never going to achieve anything other than driving people further away from you. Hurling insults and trying to shout loudest rather than listen to concerns is exactly how things like Trump getting elected and Brexit being voted in happened.

For what it’s worth I do think caution is needed with this movement towards universality of spaces and I have some concerns about it, I just think that threads like this where two vaguely connected issues are being conflated to try and make a point, and insulting people who don’t agree with you, really doesn’t help.

I won’t.. (thank you!). I was actually wondering about the sort of person who writes ‘Bore off’. The only people I’ve heard use that phrase are either children or people that don’t have the mental capacity to form a more rational response.

They are not ‘vaguely connected issues’. That is the entire point.

@Lion400

You might be right. Maybe I should give up. I’m genuinely sad that women are allowing men in. I think it’s a mistake, I think more women will suffer. I know you’re not, and neither are of lots of other women. Such is life

See, I can see where you're coming from, believe it or not, of course I get that some women don't feel safe around men and they should feel safe too.
What I do have a problem with though is the painting of all trans women a danger as a result, and also the infantalising of trans men insinuating they're just lost, confused women.
It's dehumanising/demonising a whole minority group and that never ends well.
Things feel scary at the moment and I say that as a woman who isn't trans.

No they have been segregated based on sex. So have prisons, women's services etc. The women who pander to these demands are indeed enabling this. There should be a public outcry. We have politicians stating publicly that 99% of women don't have a penis. We have people in high positions of power refusing to define what a woman is. We have girls at school who are too scared to use the gender neutral toilets. We have insidious organisations going into schools to groom and indoctrinate children. We have children being referred to gender clinics. We have councils complicit in the grooming of children by exposing them to drag queens under the guise of story hour. We've got surgeons removing healthy breasts of young women. We've got men who are convicted rapists claiming to be women to get into female prisons. I could go on and on and on. It's gone too far and it has to stop.

You can't bring up an issue deeply rooted in Trans ideology and claim not to be talking about being anti-trans

I was actually wondering about the sort of person who writes ‘Bore off’
Maybe it's because they're just sick to the back teeth of the same thread being posted over and over and over.
Feels like the guy in town who shouts about The Coming and Day of Reckoning etc you just do end up being like "bore off" lol

Stop blaming women going about our day and suggesting we enable it. That is unbelievably offensive and wrong.
I fully respect why many females would be against males in female only spaces but to suggest I enable it by going about my every day business? Come on!

Had you have posted a link to news articles about trans women or men dressed as women committing violence against women - that would have been relevant. You didn’t. Unless I’m missing something (and apologies if I am) you posted a link to a horrific case of a man stalking and murdering a woman with no connection to trans women or safe spaces. I get the point you’re trying to make, it just doesn’t work because it’s not the same specific issue.

So hide it