To wonder why some women Aren’t upset about men being in their safe spaces?

[Lion400]

Why would we make it easier for men to be in our safe spaces? Don’t twist my words. This is not about being anti trans women - this is about men not being in women’s safe spaces. Why should women have to allow men in so as to ‘save their feelings’? What about women’s safety, feelings and wishes?

Given stories such as these - examples only but they quite clearly demonstrate the issue. As if anyone needs this. The stats are easily available.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shana-grice-murder-stalking-police-sussex-a8862611.html?fbclid=IwAR0bJYAs849f0I9VFv7tHw3aguB5C8HZi3yyOMr4LxxIRURs0HBxrc_TxzE

And now the disappointing John Lewis (aka Stonewall) disaster.

https://www.jamesesses.com/p/the-trans-takeover-of-john-lewis

Who puts women first, apart from JKR and friends. It’s a limited list.

Ultimately, this question comes down to whether you are comfortable with trans women in "women only" spaces, and there is a clear difference of opinion here that you don't seem to accept?

That's what it always boils down to on these threads

'I certainly couldn’t get remotely excited about a trans woman being in there'

Do you think you could get excited about the idea that many women simply won't be able to use that facility if there is a chance of a biological male using it too? I'm talking about religious or cultural reasons, or because they have experienced sexual violence / trauma in the past - that's a significant minority of us

Wasn’t the furore your last thread caused enough for you @Lion400?

I’m sorry to hear that.

I know.

I agree 😔

This for the cool women at the back.

This isn’t really a debate or AIBU is it? This is you sharing your opinion and saying other people are wrong.

Personally, I don’t feel a toilet is a “safe space” but completely recognise that another female may be very uncomfortable with a male / trans person in a female only space. I am a self conscious person and public changing rooms are hideous for me, be they for men or women, so this probably skews my view.

I have, unfortunately, been in hospital a lot. I’ve felt distressed by having intimate care with a curtain between me and another woman. I didn’t care that she was female, it felt undignified. I’ve been in intensive care and it’s mixed sex and felt equally undignified. That’s not to say I disregard the views of other people but I think my feelings count too. My feelings are that it does not personally bother me if a male born person is next to me in a toilet or changing room. I do respect the views of others though and understand why they’d be very bothered and distressed.

This is how it goes in a hospital and it's in their guidelines that you go in the ward according to what gender you say you are

https://www.medicalbrief.co.za/uk-hospital-tells-police-patient-could-not-have-been-raped-since-attacker-was-transgender/

I've worked in an office with unisex toilets since 2007.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest and I've never heard anyone say they're bothered by it.

@goingrouge
Sorry, should have clarified!
I was referring to what you posted earlier asking what it was about
Ok so is this a thread about VAWG or is this a thread about men in women's spaces or about the trans debate?

@Lion400 I disagree. This murder has absolutely zero to do with safe spaces for women in refuges/hospitals/toilets. She wasn't safe in her home, or in her community because of a man who chose to stalk, harass and murder her.

I will happily talk about that and the countless failings that led to her death and the toxic culture that boys and men are raised in.

But not on a thread where you're trying to shoehorn her death into a debate about trans people.

@Comedycook Not cool at all. Just old

You might be right. Maybe I should give up. I’m genuinely sad that women are allowing men in. I think it’s a mistake, I think more women will suffer. I know you’re not, and neither are of lots of other women. Such is life.

Ok thanks, I was very confused. And I get that but clearly the OP doesn't which was my point!

I don't feel threatened by trans women in the same way I don't feel threatened by other women. They're discriminated against too.
I just can't get het up about it, yes predatory males are an issue that should concern us all, but predatory males don't tend to be trans. In theory anyone regardless of gender could be a threat. I think you need to get some perspective.

Thank you 💐

People can hide the thread if they want to read another don’t worry about it

Honestly, anyone is allowed to start a thread about anything.

And @Lion400 I have no idea. I can only conclude it's that they're either stupid, ignorant or like to bend over backwards to please men.

It does feel very much like this is what’s happening. Campaign against VAWG or bring in some relevant examples to generate debate - otherwise it is a distraction from an important conversation.

Rather than throw insults around, you might have a more constructive debate if you try and understand why some people disagree with you.

You don’t understand my point. Allowing males into female spaces makes it easier for any male. Predatory males will use this. Have used this.
People are so transfixed on ‘trans’ this trans that. They forget we’re talking about women. Women’s safety, women’s dignity women’s wishes.

Are they fully self contained or do you have shared sinks?

Honestly, anyone is allowed to start a thread about anything.

People are also allowed to be irritated by someone starting the same thread over and over and over again because, even when the majority of replies are agree with them, they can't deal with anyone disagreeing.

It is extremely odd to suggest that “women are allowing men in”. I do not allow or withhold permission. I am not standing at the door of a the women’s toilet asking if someone is biologically male and can they prove it? Don’t blame every day women who are simply doing our usual tasks.

I didn't used to be bothered by it. Then I looked into the issue some more and realised my understanding of 'trans' is very different to the 'self-id' model that we're supposed to be on board with as progressive, good-thinking people.

This.

In toilets I am doing my business and leaving, not staring at every woman to see if they are trans and whether or not they have the right to be there.

The article is about a man (not trans) murdering a woman. He stole a house key of hers and let himself in, which is how he managed to murder her. Nothing to do with toilets.

The vast majority of trans people are not a threat to women. Men who are born as men and still identify as men, more so. Those are the ones we should be paying attention to. I have never been harassed by a trans person. I have by men who were born as men.