Love, darling, sweetheart etc.

[monsteraa]

I hear these words regularly from men, day in, day out - bus drivers, tradesmen, shopkeepers, etc.

I don't like it when men I don't know call me these things, I find it patronising.

Sometimes I want to say 'I'm not your sweetheart' (but of course I don't, I'm too polite).

AIBU?

Diminutive.

I'm still wondering (and have asked it a couple of times) if you feel it's diminutive when women use these terms to men.

I haven't answered your question directly because it misses the point of the OP, and is also pretty much covered in what I've already said.

I think they are more 'female' words, and reinforce a general stereotype of either women as mother/ caring figures or women as vulnerable/ needing protection. I believe that is why they are used towards/ by women more than they are used by men (small pockets of the country withstanding).

I think it's very relevant to the OP. You don't like the words because
they are more 'female' words, and reinforce a general stereotype of either women as mother/ caring figures or women as vulnerable/ needing protection. I believe that is why they are used towards/ by women

But we know they are also used by women towards men. So I'm wondering if that affects how you feel about them. Does it diminish the man in the same way if a woman calls him love?

No, I would say that women often call men 'love'/ 'darling'/ 'sweetheart' in a caring/ motherly way, playing into the other female stereotype.

It's baffling to me to start a thread on the influence of the patriarchy/ subtle misogyny inherent in our everyday language and have so many people (I assume mostly women) kicking themselves in the teeth and insisting misogyny is not present, when it clearly is.

Of course these words aren't used by everyone with negative intentions, of course they are terms of endearment and genuinely well meant and affectionate.

But when you pick apart where these words actually come from and how they are used (mostly by/ for women), there is an obvious influence of the patriarchy there.

(Again, with the disclaimer of small pockets of the country).

I'm just questioning your perception of people's intentions when they use these words really. It seems quite interesting to assume when men use them to women it's diminutive but when women use them to men it's caring. I don't think it's as easy as that.

It's highly dependent on the particular situation/person. You can always sense if it's being done in a misogynistic way (usually with "Luv").

Otherwise, it always surprises me because where I grew up it's Not the Done Thing but it can feel nice.

I dont care for it either op. I know it's not always intended bad but actually terms of endearment I want from people who a dear to me and I am dear to.

Not from random.

Men and women are different and there are different power dynamics at play, shocker.

Well I said in my post just now (and previously in the thread) that obviously, most people don't use them with negative intentions. I never said that they did.

But that doesn't negate the fact that these words are highly influenced by the patriarchy, and if you think about at the roots and meanings of these words and why they are used much more by/ towards women, there is a plethora of gender stereotypes and misogyny there.

On a day to day, simple term of 'affection' I have no objection and quite like it.
However there are times when some men use it In a derogatory, patronising way but behaviour up to that point would already have pointed out they are arseholes so I wouldn't link it the first example.

I agree, but I suppose I'm also saying that even when men use it in a non-patronising/ well-intentioned way towards women, it still kind of reinforces a power dynamic.

I don't think it's something that anyone is consciously thinking about or doing on purpose.

But when a man (even a good friend/ family member) says 'thanks sweetheart' to a woman, it's kind of saying 'thanks - you're a sweetheart - you're a precious, vulnerable woman, and I am a strong man'.

Yes it's well intentioned and meant to be a term of endearment, of course. I can see why some people like it, it's affectionate. It's not really conscious, or really intended necessarily, but it's under the surface and in the history/ root of that word.

But I hear women use these words to men all the time! Why are you only focusing on men using them towards women?

It boils down, I suppose, to the power balance involved. It's not appropriate for a boss to use these words to the people they manage, because the boss holds the power. In society, men generally hold more power than women, so once again,not a good idea, outside the bounds of close relationships. It's significant that men (IRL, Mumsnet exceptions notwithstanding) don't use endearments to each other-so not to people they consider equals. People in care homes, where happens a lot, have practically no power at all- so taking away their names and infantilising them really highlights the issue.

Incidentally, when men do use these words to each other, it is often to belittle, to suggest weakness, unmanliness.

Interesting points about the power dynamic however I do feel these terms of endearments are often the language of working class people.
Now I'm not saying all working class people use these terms and I'm not saying middle class or upper class people don't use them. We all know posh women who call everyone darling!
However, generally as you go out and about it will be the working class men and women who call you love or sweetheart - the dustmen, the bus drivers, someone who's serving you tea in the cafe, someone who's delivering your parcel, the bloke who's come to fix the radiator. I don't think they're using this language to assert their power, not even on a subconscious level. It's just how they've been raised - by parents who used this language too
I do bristle when I've seen a working class person harmlessly and affectionately call someone love only to be told off by a middle class person "I'm not your love! Don't call me that". In these situations it's clear that no one was being patronising, no offence was intended - it's just people using the language that everyone in their community has always used and then being put in their place!

I have already answered that question a few posts previously. Read the thread.

If this upsets you then please don't ever set foot inside the county boundaries of Yorkshire. We call each other all sorts, and unless it's a word that is universally used to insult or offend, then everything else is meant in a friendly way. I'm a guy and generally use 'mate' or 'love' on a daily basis, but these aren't even gender-specific, I.e. I can call a woman 'mate' and another man 'love' and nobody will bat an eyelid.

My favourite, being in my mid 40s, is when a teenager calls me 'lad'....I wish!

Embrace it. There are far worse things to be called and far, far worse things going on that deserve your ire.

I lived in Yorkshire for 5 years.

Completely agree. Worst of all, “young lady “ from anyone not at least five years older than me. I’m sixty four ffs - show some respect!

@ChernarusFinest I've spent a significant amount of time in Yorkshire over the past 35 years. If you tell me where I can hear men routinely calling each other "love", I'll go and visit.

It doesn't bother me one iota. I also use those terms on men. If you take it literally, that's your problem.

Exactly. I live in Yorkshire and have been called all sorts of things over the years - all friendly I hasten to add! I have often been called "lass" by men and women of all ages. Should I feel offended and disrespected because I'm actually a middle aged woman?! I certainly don't. I'm originally from the south and I love the way people speak to each other here.
If a man were to call me darling in a patronising way, yes I'd be pissed off. Can't say it's ever happened to me though.
There are so many things I find offensive/scary/apalling in the world today. A few people calling me love in an entirely good natured way is not something that could possibly bother me.

Just got back from walking the dog - a woman called him “sweetheart”. Really confused now - should I be offended on his behalf.

By the way, when I worked in a filling station we used to keep a chart of how many times we’d been called each thing that week (it was a boring job)

@ChernarusFinest Oh good, a man has come along to give us his opinion on a feminist issue.

Embrace it. There are far worse things to be called and far, far worse things going on that deserve your ire.

You are a man giving advice to women who feel patronised and diminished by men. Have some self awareness. You don't know what it feels like to be called 'sweetheart' on a daily basis by men.