to wonder why parents feel they don't need to financially help their kids after a certain age because they must ‘struggle like we did’ ?

[whatistuesday]

I understand some people literally cannot do this but many can, even if it means a detriment to their own life, for instance one less holiday, a cheaper car etc etc.

But I do not understand why those who can, don’t. People who moan about supporting kids through university, making them take (full) loans that take so long to pay back, making them move out before they’ve had chance to save, charging them rent… the list goes on. The argument always seems to be that the DD or DS needs to learn the value of money or stand on their own two feet… of course, but does that mean you, as a parent, have no responsibility when they turn 18? Are they supposed to magically have money to start out? Even renting you need a deposit, let alone the idea of saving for a mortgage. There’s this idea that ‘well if i suffered, you must too.’ It’s your child!

For context I have had help from my parents but also know they could have done more. I now have dc and would do everything possible to ensure they were financially comfortable as a young adult. And no… I’m not bringing up brats, I work hard and will expect them to, too. But I also don’t want them to launch into debt to get started in life, because I think I deserve a nice holiday or a new car or to order what I want in my weekly shop. I will always make sacrifices where needed, it won’t suddenly end at 18.

I agree totally op. That attitude is so bizarre to me. Surely you want your kids to have a better life than you if possible?
My 24 year old out earns me already thanks to a great degree and her own hard work. We paid her rent through uni and I will retire later as a result. But to me that's worth it. My older one doing very well too.
Do I think they should have struggled more? No. My job is to help them be successful adults. I get the feeling that quite a lot of parents are jealous of their children.

I won't need to pay it when I'm 80 unless it is financially advantageous to me... To get a guarantee of being able to "rent" this money longer term is definitely in my interests at the moment, but the 5 year fix gives me complete flexibility and control (money removed from estate simplifies matters on death, son becomes home owner years earlier, income from lodger helps with bills and contributes to my mortgage payments, 5 years to get round to downsizing and new buyers enjoying my underused family home etc). Obviously a five year fix gives me the option to downsize, pay it all off and live happily ever after. I own 2 additional properties that I have bought and rent out - it would be easier to sell one and release that capital, however my tenants pay below market rent and would never find anything like their current homes that they could afford. Would I evict the single dad on benefits or the lady on benefits living with anxiety and depression? As I said previously, it's all about compromise and I have to make certain choices - in my case I'm happy with my choice, which is financially well planned and affordable. And taking others into consideration. This mortgage is a short term tool with option of longer term if I want it, no doom or drudgery. If it doesn't suit you, please don't consider it. My son shares our money-saving values and appreciates that this is finding a way to give him much of his inheritance 20 years early and will make a huge difference to his home owning plans. Planned debt is a tool, like taking a student loan instead of spending your savings on university - though I appreciate it might not be for everyone. No one (?) wants a relative to stack shelves until they are 80 to subsidise them, but sensible refinancing options are available!
Reading so many stories on MN of exploitation, manipulation, abuse, CFery and unhappiness, I thought my story was more in the realm of "ooh, that's worth thinking about..."
In my case, I wouldn't like a cruise anyway...

I like your thinking @DoNotWorryBeHappy .

And of course, as op herself says, we are not talking here about people living in penury to support their adult children.

As you say .... planned debt is a tool

@taxguru I'm sorry to hear you both have life limiting conditions. I imagine it does indeed focus the mind on ensuring your son is set up for adult life while you can see it. Wishing you well in seeing him thrive as a result of your efforts.

She doesn't sound entitled... In her brief outline, she represents many of us who very much appreciate the bits and bobs of parents' help received - perhaps driving lessons, a puppy, a school ski trip, a library card... But as parents now it is natural to reflect on our own parents' strengths and weaknesses. And we can see clearly. Although we're rarely as hard on our parents as we are on ourselves!

Please see my other replies regarding affordability and using a mortgage as a planning tool!

I really resented the lack of financial support I got from my parents as an adult. It stopped me doing postgrad and really hurt career chances I had. I felt like my work at school and uni was for nothing.

I've pledged not to do the same fir my DCs.

I'll support them forever. Not to be cocklodgers in the house but with driving lessons, uni, and house deposits.

I really don't think cocklodger is the term you want here, a cocklodger is a man who thinks that sexual favours will suffice in lieu of rent 😬
https://slangdefine.org/c/cocklodger-9ff1.html

My Dad was very generous. I managed on my own but he'd think nothing of peeling off banknotes to buy me a washing machine, for example. My mum (widowed fairly young) very much less so. Travelled around the world.. :-0

My kids laugh that my mum couldn't spend money fast enough, (& was in a care home to the tune of about 80K before she died -obvs not her fault) & I rarely spend on myself & try & accumulate savings I can leave to my kids! Mum offered me about £300 when I was 5 months in arrears with the mortgage through no fault of my own. Told her not to bother.

I think her point was that if she had a spare £30,000 she would happily use it to help a hardworking child get a decent deposit together rather than buy herself a brand new car, when a ten year old car would do. Not necessarily expecting to pay for a showy wedding or an adventure holiday for workshy, adult kids who want their laundry doing at 36 and their toast cut into soldiers and will never attempt to save money but wish to follow the influencers' lifestyles, but for a home. The workshy adult children might well need support in a different way.

As long as they are working hard I will support them as much as possible. They have had a miserable time throughout Covid and lockdowns but coped with it all so well. I hate that everyone just wants to put young people down on the basis that apparently life was so much harder in the past. I'm not entirely sure that argument applies anymore.

I hate that everyone just wants to put young people down on the basis that apparently life was so much harder in the past.

Who has said this? Most people are saying it’s even harder now.. Which is the moot point - I personally think it’s no different for those in their twenties and thirties but due to house prices and student debt plus parents living longer (later inheritances) todays young people will reach the affluence levels of their parents much later in life. The question is whether or not our twenty and thirty somethings should go without, as their parents did, or whether they should be supported to have a better lifestyle by said affluent parents.

I do worry though for some of the parents who say they won’t see their children go without. if you are fully secure till the age of 100 then go ahead but increased life expectancy and care bills are new added costs for the parent’s generation which does not always seem to be taken into account when the younger generation bleat on about how much easier it was without student debt and affordable property.

@TheHoover I wonder if the people who were helped substantially by their parents, will then help their parents if their parents are then left without enough finances to cover them in their final years

I don't fully agree, DC need to be able to budget and manage their money. I'd never dream of asking my parents for money. They did pay for my wedding, I didn't expect them to and we were saving up for it.
I have friends who still go to their parents for handouts in their 40s because they were always bailed out in their young adulthood.
So whilst I'd hate to see my kids struggle, I'd want them to be financially independent and budget accordingly. We're not wealthy enough to give them £££££s without it seriously impacting us.

I think so, depending on circumstances. I was happy to look after my mother in law and helped to look after other elderly relatives when they were in need. My mum, who was always generous, died quickly; she was taken to hospital on the Thursday and died of burst aneurysm on the Saturday morning so I didn't have to look after her but I (and husband), always looked out for her while she was alive and did any jobs she needed.

My only child who, in forties, always says I need have no worries and will be taken care of. However I aim not to need that :).

@OhSmitty

DC need to be able to budget and manage their money.

They can still do that with parental help. We have never given DS any money directly, we've always bought things for him and will continue to do so until he is established in his career. That way, we are in control and he can't squander it. Even though we have 100% confidence in him, we'd never give him a lump sum.

To my mind "managing his money" means staying within his bank account balance and no randomly wasting money. He has no problem doing that. The only money we think he "wastes" is on a couple of football shirts and a couple of xbox games each year and maybe a takeaway once a week with his flat mates! They're his hobbies and pretty cheap really. When he goes food or clothes shopping, he's notoriously tight and constantly buys reduced items.

We do the Philip Jones method of giving matching whatever he spends, so when he buys a car this Summer, we'll pay half, he will pay the other half, same with his flat, we'll pay half his deposit and half the costs of furnishings etc. During Uni, we've paid half his rent and living costs (other half from student loan). We'll also contribute to his deposit when he buys a house.

But there's no way we'll be paying anything towards holidays, weddings, or living costs once he's working. We'll help set him up for the essentials but won't finance any discretionary spending once he's working as he's got a very good job with excellent prospects so won't need help once he's moved and settled in (he'll be earning more than us!).

@taxguru why will you be financing so much if he is going to be earning more than you?

I think the word struggle means different things to different people.
To meet it means difficulty putting food on the table or paying for the roof over your head.
To others it means difficulty finding money for car payments / mobile phone contract renewals and holidays etc. Yes we need cars and phones etc these days but we don't need a lease car every few years and we can go sim only on the phone contract to avoid going to parents to ask for help.

To get him into that position.

There is a balance when it comes to helping your children. That may include money but also include how to help them learn how to make money.

My parents have been spectacularly ungenerous for wealthy retirees. Despite living in the same town they would do one days childcare in the whole summer holiday... For some reason they always booked their holidays during school holidays.

It is who they are. But, the other day I realised that I was the only person I know who had not received any financial help from parents. My mother does talk about how little she had in the 1950s, despite then enjoying free University and retirement at 60.

The positives are that, because I have always known there would be no help, I have always been very considered and hardworking and have just realised that I will be able to retire at 60.

The downside is that I feel sad about their inability to help when they could have done.

As long as our DC are trying to support themselves eg by studying or working, we will support them as much as we can. I am hoping this won’t be needed beyond 25 as I think it’s better for them to feel independent but we they will always be my children. I can’t understand the mentality of ‘we suffered so they should too’. Saying that, it is really important they have a work ethic and aren’t lazy but life is complicated and renting/buying a house so expensive in many areas, they will possibly need our help. I just hope we are able to give it then!

Surely most young people would be better off doing a modern apprenticeship, and getting paid, rather than borrowing to study?

I do recognise OP that some people go well OTT and kind of abandon their children when they are adults.
But the examples you give on your first post (I confess I did not read the rest) do not sound unreasonable from their part.
So, they have worked hard, raised children, supported them till they are adults and now want to have some holidays before getting too old, shopping without the need of budgeting each penny or want to have a comfortable reliable car. I think that is more than fair enough.
If you had said that they had millions in the bank, or have mahoosive pensions and still did not pay for their children's uni or help them with a deposit and the children are living on unsuitable accomodation, or cannot afford toys and clothes for their children or to keep the heating on at home, or buy ice cream as a treat, then yeah, the parents would be unreasonable.

In theory, yes, but thanks to Blair, we now have a skewed education/employment situation where there are ridiculously few decent apprenticeship schemes and ever-expanding universities.

A lot of school leavers have no choice but to go to Uni as that's where they can get a place, whereas employers don't and can't offer ever increasing numbers of training places. In some regions, there are remarkably few larger employers, so virtually no decent apprenticeships.

Because there are so many "graduates" these days, employers use a degree to weed out the number of job applicants, even where the job doesn't need a degree - it's a good way of reducing the number of applicants rather than them having to sift through hundreds or even thousands! At least, recently, we've seen a new surge in apprenticeship schemes, due mostly to the new apprenticeship levy on bigger employers, so the sands are shifting at last.

Having said all that, though, there are still plenty of jobs that really do "Need" workers with degrees, especially in scientific, technology, and Maths where academic knowledge/interest/research continues to be essential.

I do think most people now realise that Blair's aim of 50% of school leavers going to Uni has been a bad mistake, although lots of people knew it at the time but were ignored. It's also screwed up local housing markets in Uni towns due to the doubling/trebling/quadrupling of students, it's put massive strain on local housing, pushing out low earners and families, increasing rents, family homes being converted into student multi-occupancy, etc - with the money supply from student loans financing the demand led rent/house price increases. It's a shame Blair didn't think through his plan and realise that students at Uni need somewhere to live!

None of it is the student's fault, but they get the blame and they're the ones leaving Uni with a potentially/sometimes worthless piece of paper and £50k in debt. The whole Uni expansion policy has been a shambles and has done so much harm in so many ways. But none of it is the student's fault.

I very much believe in “our kids doesn’t owe us anything” in that they didn’t ask to be born and it is our responsibility to do what we can for them.

my parents paid my rent while I was at university while I had a student loan & part time job to live on. I will be eternally grateful for this as it took a huge pressure off. I don’t think you have to do EVERYTHING for them but if you do show them the support you can most people grow up to be kind and grateful if you bring them up well.

and while my parents are wonderful, they are not perfect. Materially there was little I had to want for but they were not always great at handling things emotionally… I think that this counts for just as much and as long as your children feel you’ve “got their back” that will count for everything.