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AIBU?

Any Conservatives out there?

194 replies

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 07:53

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

163 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
28%
You are NOT being unreasonable
72%
BetterFuture1985 · 28/09/2022 12:29

SleeplessInEngland · 28/09/2022 12:26

Tory: Not a fucking chance
Labour: Support Brexit, so not a fucking chance
Lib Dems: Won't reverse Brexit and it's their fault Tories got in in the first place, so not a fucking chance
Far Right Oddball: Not a fucking snowball's chance in hell

I say this as someone who recognises brexit as the biggest self-inflicted wound this country has committed in my lifetime: there's nothing Starmer can do about it now. 'Supporting brexit' doesn't materially mean anything anymore. Even many remainers are wary of opening the 'rejoin the EU' wound again for a generation. The failiure of brexit speaks for itself every single day now.

Starmer can bail. I guess he has to because he wants to be PM.

I have no interest in being elected, so I don't have to bail, at least not with my vote. I'm more likely to vote with my feet instead (it's very, very likely I will move to an EU country in the next 5-10 years).

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DameHelena · 28/09/2022 12:32

CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 12:04

Do you say the same at war memorials? Lest we forget… it’s all the same theme about not taking freedom and privileges for granted because they’ve been fought for.

Not knowing the history means people take voting for granted. I actually don’t remember being taught either suffragette or Chartist history at school. I wonder why the government kept that out the curriculum?

I don't know what is so difficult about my point.

Of course everyone must never stop taking freedom and privileges for granted and must always remember that they’ve been fought for. What I was trying to get across is that I so often see people saying 'Women must vote because people fought and died for their right to', but never saying 'Men must vote because people fought and died for their right to', even though they did.

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Brefugee · 28/09/2022 12:33

Tory: Not a fucking chance
Labour: Support Brexit, so not a fucking chance
Lib Dems: Won't reverse Brexit and it's their fault Tories got in in the first place, so not a fucking chance
Far Right Oddball: Not a fucking snowball's chance in hell

Brexit has happened. The only way forward is to now make the best of it. It is neither here nor there in any of this now except for how we move forward. What the UK needs is competent representatives who are prepared to make a compromise or two to make trade with the EU and other countries happen.
If you want the tories out you have to vote for the person in your constituency who is most likely to make that happen.

I am as pro EU as the next person, hence my name, but the reality is: Brexit is a fact of life. What counts now is how it plays out.

The polling station isn't far away so I will stroll over to spoil my ballot but if there's a queue I won't wait.

You deserve whatever comes, then. Because that is a complete and utter slap in the face to everyone who fought for your right to vote. Harsh? yes. But i'm sick and tired of the sniping from the sidelines, with zero effort to even try to fix things.

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GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 12:36

Sorry I’m at work so quite busy now, I’m having a read through and enjoying the nuanced debate.
Those who have just had a go at me personally, I’m thick, naive etc less so.
But it’s great to read the rest, I’m certainly having a think.

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Iamanunsafebuilding · 28/09/2022 12:37

@beguilingeyes you quoted one part of my post but my overall context is that although I'm not a natural labour voter and I don't particularly rate Keir Starmer I will most likely vote labour at the next GE.

@DameHelena I apologise for my shoddy spelling

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SleeplessInEngland · 28/09/2022 12:38

BetterFuture1985 · 28/09/2022 12:29

Starmer can bail. I guess he has to because he wants to be PM.

I have no interest in being elected, so I don't have to bail, at least not with my vote. I'm more likely to vote with my feet instead (it's very, very likely I will move to an EU country in the next 5-10 years).

Of course, but I'd humbly suggest it's cutting your nose off to use it as the basis of your voting. As a remainer I'd be looking at which leader thinks it's better to have good EU relations compared to the one who thinks slagging it off is red meat to their base.

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AnnPerkins · 28/09/2022 12:39

boxybox · 28/09/2022 08:32

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

If you did get a contract would you be writing this post?

My thoughts exactly.

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BetterFuture1985 · 28/09/2022 12:40

Brefugee · 28/09/2022 12:33

Tory: Not a fucking chance
Labour: Support Brexit, so not a fucking chance
Lib Dems: Won't reverse Brexit and it's their fault Tories got in in the first place, so not a fucking chance
Far Right Oddball: Not a fucking snowball's chance in hell

Brexit has happened. The only way forward is to now make the best of it. It is neither here nor there in any of this now except for how we move forward. What the UK needs is competent representatives who are prepared to make a compromise or two to make trade with the EU and other countries happen.
If you want the tories out you have to vote for the person in your constituency who is most likely to make that happen.

I am as pro EU as the next person, hence my name, but the reality is: Brexit is a fact of life. What counts now is how it plays out.

The polling station isn't far away so I will stroll over to spoil my ballot but if there's a queue I won't wait.

You deserve whatever comes, then. Because that is a complete and utter slap in the face to everyone who fought for your right to vote. Harsh? yes. But i'm sick and tired of the sniping from the sidelines, with zero effort to even try to fix things.

You can't make the best of Brexit. Brexit has made exports fall off a cliff edge. It is the reason the inflation of about 5-6% in the EU is more like 10%+ in the UK (lest we forget, inflation was already high in the UK before the energy crisis, because of falling exports and labour shortages).

Also, as individuals, we don't have to stay and make the best of it at all. I have no intention of doing so. I have a global job that can just as easily be done in the USA, Ireland, hey even Malta. Either Brexit gets reversed or I go somewhere stable.

Also, if I'm giving the choice between four bloody awful candidates, all of whom I know are going to make things worse, why is it a slap in the face for people fighting for the vote? Do you even know who these people were? They were ordinary people seeking better lives for themselves and their families who could never have imagined how democracy could become captured and corrupted in the way it has. Anyone who stands up for what those people fought for are derided as mad, bad or dangerous. People who stand up for social justice or against Brexit are labelled as traitors and bullied into silence by the far right press. I feel my spoiling my ballot is far more in tune with them than those who hold their nose and vote for dogshit.

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GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 12:51

@AnnPerkins if I'd have got one of those covid contracts, in a fair tender process, I would still be hear frustrated with the economy. It's the fact they're given our unfairly. I run a business that could have easily had one, I've been doing this for 6 Years.

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Checkitoutnow · 28/09/2022 13:16

DameHelena · 28/09/2022 12:25

Um, yes; that's part of my point.
The other part being that it's always people invoking the female suffragettes and it's always aimed at women.

That’s not my experience and understanding at all. When people say people fought and died for your right to vote, it’s very much an unisex proposition. Perhaps as a woman, you hear suffragettes more, but I’ve regularly heard references to the chartists, Peterloo, etc

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Brefugee · 28/09/2022 13:21

You can't make the best of Brexit. Brexit has made exports fall off a cliff edge. It is the reason the inflation of about 5-6% in the EU is more like 10%+ in the UK (lest we forget, inflation was already high in the UK before the energy crisis, because of falling exports and labour shortages).

you literally don't have a choice. Anyone who says "you can't make the most of brexit" is also head in the sand - and if you're plannin to moe away, you're not bothered anyway? (you may get called a traitor like i was, even though i haven't lived in the UK for nearly 40 years)

If there are labour shortages, the view of the Tories should honestly be "scarcity makes the price go up". That is LITERALLY (necon)economics 101. So were i to be someone looking for work and seeing only NMW i would be wondering if the tories were as commited to free markets as they say they are.

If i worked in the NHS i would be wondering why it seems so inefficient. I read the other day about a bog standard ream of paper should cost a fiver but the NHS pays 25. Not sure if that's true or prevalent but i would be wondering about things like this. etc etc.

But for actual Brexit? You need to try to get back in the SU. If that doesn't work you need to try to set up something as close to frictionless trade that you can, outside of the SU. Not whinge that the EU is making Brits and British companies jump through hoops because they're petty and vindictive (because they are applying the regular 3rd party rules) etc etc. Making agreements on things like Erasmus, protected professions, reciprocal acknowledgement of qualifications etc etc. But what is happening right now? the UK is having a toddler tantrum and the EU are over all that now.

The energy crisis, Ukraine situation and now possible sabotage to nordstream 1 & 2 are things that are handled better together, not separately.

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Brefugee · 28/09/2022 13:24

That’s not my experience and understanding at all. When people say people fought and died for your right to vote, it’s very much an unisex proposition. Perhaps as a woman, you hear suffragettes more, but I’ve regularly heard references to the chartists, Peterloo, etc

i think women nowadays hear that more because there is so much more talk along the lines of "I'm not voting for X party because they don't know what a woman is". Of COURSE people are going to point out that this affects women more than others, and if women care about this they SHOULD be voting every possible time. And the fact that this right is relatively recent, is an added incentive. Use it or lose it.

It is so much easier to whine from the sidelines - much harder to be involved. But putting a X in a box requires hardly any effort.

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AnnPerkins · 28/09/2022 13:42

OK OP Grin

Can you think of anyone left in the party who is fit to lead it? Is there anyone at all you can name who should replace Truss? Because if you can't (and apart from the usual suspects plotting Boris's return, I haven't seen any names suggested) then they definitely need to spend some time out of power. They have been scraping the barrel for years, they're out of ideas and they've lost the party to the mad fringes.

I'm a centrist, floating voter. I have voted for all parties over the years. A week ago I wouldn't have wanted to vote Labour, I liked some of their ideas but not enough to get past the self ID thing. Since the mini-budget I have changed my mind and the Labour conference this week has helped. Tories don't give a shit about the environment or renewable energy, public services that are on their knees after austerity are now in for yet more funding cuts, and their fiscal policies seem designed to fuck over the younger generation in favour of their elderly voters. They have turned this country into an embarrassment. I want a decent future for my son's generation and the Tories seem intent on destroying it.

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AdamRyan · 28/09/2022 14:11

What i really don't get is how and why people aren't on the streets about these things?

I think because over the past 20 years it's been shown protesting does precisely nothing.
Iraq was. Huge protests, we still invaded
Anti Brexit. Sevetal huge protests, we still went for a hard brexit
Sarah Everard. Huge protests, no action on misogyny.

Petitions also useless.

The only option for conservatives really is to withdraw support. So 1) cancel your membership and say why; 2) vote differently; 3) write to your MP and say you disagree; 4) don't canvas or volunteer for them and say why; 5) don't donate; 6) if you are in any focus groups/business groups that inform policies make your feelings known.

This is a downright mess that only conservative voters can get us out of

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EvelynBeatrice · 28/09/2022 16:57

"I'm sorry but this country and the Conservative party was doomed the moment the brexit referendum result was declared and David Cameron bailed, you could see on his face he realised what he’d done to this country at that moment."

I'm no big fan of David Cameron but I have a real problem with blaming Brexit on him to this extent. The British public did it to themselves! It's a democracy. We get the politicians and referendum results we deserve.

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NicolaSixSix · 28/09/2022 17:31

BuildersTeaMaker · 28/09/2022 09:14

I know this isn’t the point of your post. It your core belief is that “hard work pays off”.
that’s where you are going wrong
for many people hard work does NOT pay off. People work all the hours that god send, in shitty low salaried work on zero hours contract. Is that becuase they don’t work hard enough? What a bloody superior attitude you must have to really think that.
those people meeting out statement line this are squally born into privaledged households. Or have a strong financial start established by parents. Or have done well academically to get a degree. Not everyone is capable of that. Not everyone is gifted with the accedemic abilities to do a degree. It’s fuck all to do with hard work, it’s to do with genes, and their circumstances. If you come form a poor family with low expectations then it’s bloody hard to see how you can get to uni even if you could cope acedemically- you don’t have luxury of parenteral support to make up maintenance grant. And as for those that come from wealthier backgrounds jetting out this mantra : I’ve been poor and then wealthy and poor. It’s bloody easy to make money when you have money, or to save money when you have money. It’s so very hard work and difficult and depressing and stressful trying to save or make money when you have nowt. Again something that seems beyond the realm of understanding of conservatives like you with your “hard work is rewarded”
do nurses not work hard? Care workers? Fruit pickers? Carpet fitters?

i would go so far as to say the hyprocracy here is dripping. You voted for these charlatans and corrupt bunch of privaledged cronies. Don’t now go running away all passively saying “nothing to do with me, not what I wanted”…people with the attitude of “I’m wealthy cos I deserve it cos I worked hard” will always revert to type of looking after themselves first without any understanding of why people are poor, struggling etc

you put Truss where she is and all her cronies for keeping a party in power that is dominated with a culture that allows precisely this type of person to thrive.

👏

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HesterAndPearlInBrightSunshine · 28/09/2022 19:10

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%.

Not even that- it's about the 0.0001% so removed from ordinary people's experiences they might as well be living on the moon.

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Devilishpyjamas · 28/09/2022 22:03

Vote whoever will get them out in your constituency and call for PR. I’m a Lib Dem, although left/green leaning so am comfortable with Labour and Green., I always vote Labour in my Tory/Labour marginal constituency. (And not hard to do, my Labour MP is very good).

I have a very good friend who is a Tory. He has always been a headbanger/ERG type. He has never pretended to think we should support vulnerable groups. It was quite funny when the extreme of the Party had no chance. But this is the Tory Party now and has been since Brexit really. You lost a lot of sensible MPs & attack the UKIP types.

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somewhereovertherain · 29/09/2022 08:08

Carla2601 · 28/09/2022 08:57

@GyozaGuiting im genuinely interested in how you think Kier Starmer, a successful human rights lawyer, could do a worse job than this?

plenty of labour voters leant their votes to the tories and it’s now time (hopefully she does the only thing anyone with any ounce of self respect would do now and call a GE) for Tory voters to do the same. This cannot go on. It’s despicable.

Probably reads the Daily Hate or the other awful rag.

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