Any Conservatives out there?

[GyozaGuiting]

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

Starmer can bail. I guess he has to because he wants to be PM.

I have no interest in being elected, so I don't have to bail, at least not with my vote. I'm more likely to vote with my feet instead (it's very, very likely I will move to an EU country in the next 5-10 years).

I don't know what is so difficult about my point.

Of course everyone must never stop taking freedom and privileges for granted and must always remember that they’ve been fought for. What I was trying to get across is that I so often see people saying 'Women must vote because people fought and died for their right to', but never saying 'Men must vote because people fought and died for their right to', even though they did.

Tory: Not a fucking chance
Labour: Support Brexit, so not a fucking chance
Lib Dems: Won't reverse Brexit and it's their fault Tories got in in the first place, so not a fucking chance
Far Right Oddball: Not a fucking snowball's chance in hell

Brexit has happened. The only way forward is to now make the best of it. It is neither here nor there in any of this now except for how we move forward. What the UK needs is competent representatives who are prepared to make a compromise or two to make trade with the EU and other countries happen.
If you want the tories out you have to vote for the person in your constituency who is most likely to make that happen.

I am as pro EU as the next person, hence my name, but the reality is: Brexit is a fact of life. What counts now is how it plays out.

The polling station isn't far away so I will stroll over to spoil my ballot but if there's a queue I won't wait.

You deserve whatever comes, then. Because that is a complete and utter slap in the face to everyone who fought for your right to vote. Harsh? yes. But i'm sick and tired of the sniping from the sidelines, with zero effort to even try to fix things.

Sorry I’m at work so quite busy now, I’m having a read through and enjoying the nuanced debate.
Those who have just had a go at me personally, I’m thick, naive etc less so.
But it’s great to read the rest, I’m certainly having a think.

@beguilingeyes you quoted one part of my post but my overall context is that although I'm not a natural labour voter and I don't particularly rate Keir Starmer I will most likely vote labour at the next GE.

@DameHelena I apologise for my shoddy spelling

Of course, but I'd humbly suggest it's cutting your nose off to use it as the basis of your voting. As a remainer I'd be looking at which leader thinks it's better to have good EU relations compared to the one who thinks slagging it off is red meat to their base.

My thoughts exactly.

You can't make the best of Brexit. Brexit has made exports fall off a cliff edge. It is the reason the inflation of about 5-6% in the EU is more like 10%+ in the UK (lest we forget, inflation was already high in the UK before the energy crisis, because of falling exports and labour shortages).

Also, as individuals, we don't have to stay and make the best of it at all. I have no intention of doing so. I have a global job that can just as easily be done in the USA, Ireland, hey even Malta. Either Brexit gets reversed or I go somewhere stable.

Also, if I'm giving the choice between four bloody awful candidates, all of whom I know are going to make things worse, why is it a slap in the face for people fighting for the vote? Do you even know who these people were? They were ordinary people seeking better lives for themselves and their families who could never have imagined how democracy could become captured and corrupted in the way it has. Anyone who stands up for what those people fought for are derided as mad, bad or dangerous. People who stand up for social justice or against Brexit are labelled as traitors and bullied into silence by the far right press. I feel my spoiling my ballot is far more in tune with them than those who hold their nose and vote for dogshit.

@AnnPerkins if I'd have got one of those covid contracts, in a fair tender process, I would still be hear frustrated with the economy. It's the fact they're given our unfairly. I run a business that could have easily had one, I've been doing this for 6 Years.

That’s not my experience and understanding at all. When people say people fought and died for your right to vote, it’s very much an unisex proposition. Perhaps as a woman, you hear suffragettes more, but I’ve regularly heard references to the chartists, Peterloo, etc

You can't make the best of Brexit. Brexit has made exports fall off a cliff edge. It is the reason the inflation of about 5-6% in the EU is more like 10%+ in the UK (lest we forget, inflation was already high in the UK before the energy crisis, because of falling exports and labour shortages).

you literally don't have a choice. Anyone who says "you can't make the most of brexit" is also head in the sand - and if you're plannin to moe away, you're not bothered anyway? (you may get called a traitor like i was, even though i haven't lived in the UK for nearly 40 years)

If there are labour shortages, the view of the Tories should honestly be "scarcity makes the price go up". That is LITERALLY (necon)economics 101. So were i to be someone looking for work and seeing only NMW i would be wondering if the tories were as commited to free markets as they say they are.

If i worked in the NHS i would be wondering why it seems so inefficient. I read the other day about a bog standard ream of paper should cost a fiver but the NHS pays 25. Not sure if that's true or prevalent but i would be wondering about things like this. etc etc.

But for actual Brexit? You need to try to get back in the SU. If that doesn't work you need to try to set up something as close to frictionless trade that you can, outside of the SU. Not whinge that the EU is making Brits and British companies jump through hoops because they're petty and vindictive (because they are applying the regular 3rd party rules) etc etc. Making agreements on things like Erasmus, protected professions, reciprocal acknowledgement of qualifications etc etc. But what is happening right now? the UK is having a toddler tantrum and the EU are over all that now.

The energy crisis, Ukraine situation and now possible sabotage to nordstream 1 & 2 are things that are handled better together, not separately.

That’s not my experience and understanding at all. When people say people fought and died for your right to vote, it’s very much an unisex proposition. Perhaps as a woman, you hear suffragettes more, but I’ve regularly heard references to the chartists, Peterloo, etc

i think women nowadays hear that more because there is so much more talk along the lines of "I'm not voting for X party because they don't know what a woman is". Of COURSE people are going to point out that this affects women more than others, and if women care about this they SHOULD be voting every possible time. And the fact that this right is relatively recent, is an added incentive. Use it or lose it.

It is so much easier to whine from the sidelines - much harder to be involved. But putting a X in a box requires hardly any effort.

OK OP

Can you think of anyone left in the party who is fit to lead it? Is there anyone at all you can name who should replace Truss? Because if you can't (and apart from the usual suspects plotting Boris's return, I haven't seen any names suggested) then they definitely need to spend some time out of power. They have been scraping the barrel for years, they're out of ideas and they've lost the party to the mad fringes.

I'm a centrist, floating voter. I have voted for all parties over the years. A week ago I wouldn't have wanted to vote Labour, I liked some of their ideas but not enough to get past the self ID thing. Since the mini-budget I have changed my mind and the Labour conference this week has helped. Tories don't give a shit about the environment or renewable energy, public services that are on their knees after austerity are now in for yet more funding cuts, and their fiscal policies seem designed to fuck over the younger generation in favour of their elderly voters. They have turned this country into an embarrassment. I want a decent future for my son's generation and the Tories seem intent on destroying it.

What i really don't get is how and why people aren't on the streets about these things?

I think because over the past 20 years it's been shown protesting does precisely nothing.
Iraq was. Huge protests, we still invaded
Anti Brexit. Sevetal huge protests, we still went for a hard brexit
Sarah Everard. Huge protests, no action on misogyny.

Petitions also useless.

The only option for conservatives really is to withdraw support. So 1) cancel your membership and say why; 2) vote differently; 3) write to your MP and say you disagree; 4) don't canvas or volunteer for them and say why; 5) don't donate; 6) if you are in any focus groups/business groups that inform policies make your feelings known.

This is a downright mess that only conservative voters can get us out of

"I'm sorry but this country and the Conservative party was doomed the moment the brexit referendum result was declared and David Cameron bailed, you could see on his face he realised what he’d done to this country at that moment."

I'm no big fan of David Cameron but I have a real problem with blaming Brexit on him to this extent. The British public did it to themselves! It's a democracy. We get the politicians and referendum results we deserve.

👏

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%.

Not even that- it's about the 0.0001% so removed from ordinary people's experiences they might as well be living on the moon.

Vote whoever will get them out in your constituency and call for PR. I’m a Lib Dem, although left/green leaning so am comfortable with Labour and Green., I always vote Labour in my Tory/Labour marginal constituency. (And not hard to do, my Labour MP is very good).

I have a very good friend who is a Tory. He has always been a headbanger/ERG type. He has never pretended to think we should support vulnerable groups. It was quite funny when the extreme of the Party had no chance. But this is the Tory Party now and has been since Brexit really. You lost a lot of sensible MPs & attack the UKIP types.

Probably reads the Daily Hate or the other awful rag.