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AIBU?

Any Conservatives out there?

194 replies

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 07:53

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

163 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
28%
You are NOT being unreasonable
72%
clowerina · 28/09/2022 09:44

Conservative = UKIP / Britain First now basically.

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ginghamstarfish · 28/09/2022 09:47

I too have always leaned towards Conservatism but yes their time is coming to an end. Sadly there is no viable opposition in my opinion. Labour have at least got rid of the unelectable Corbyn, but still .... and they can say whatever sounds good at the party conference, as any opposition party does, but are unlikely to follow through.

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sheener · 28/09/2022 09:47

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Dogtooth · 28/09/2022 09:48

I get you OP, I have never and would never vote Tory but I have a certain respect for the old-skool pillar of the community type Conservative who thinks it's the best way to support business, especially SMEs.

Truth is that trad Conservatism has nothing to do with the asset-stripping investment banker types who currently fund the party or the flag-waving Ukippers who seem to be its target demographic.

They take the votes of people like you for granted because of the never-Labour thing. They think you'll vote for anything with a blue rosette attached. For my part, I think we need electoral reform and a wider range of parties so there is more compromise and better public debate.

If I were you, I'd vote for Labour based solely on the promise of PR - the Conservative party is dead in the water, with reform there could be a party that speaks up for the traditional approach you prefer.

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oatmilk4breakfast · 28/09/2022 09:49

I don’t hate you. But your party has been stolen from you. Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng are authors of Britannia Unchained. Worth a read - it’s all there - Freeports, charter cities, Singapore on Thames, they don’t believe in public service. Or ordinary business. It’s just about huge money movements. It’s not connected to our actual reality of depleting natural resources, ordinary concerns of schools, healthcare, business. None of it. They do not care. Vote tactically in the next election. It doesn’t define who you are. We just have to get these charlatans out.

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NicolaSixSix · 28/09/2022 09:49

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 08:04

@somewhereovertherain in terms of running the business I’ve been helped a lot my Conservative policies; SEIS and EIS, DiT shows and missions as well as export projects and retail intros, we used the covid rates relief scheme and the government back to work scheme. I can’t fault them on these.

It’s specifically how it’s gone recently and the covid contracts that pissed me off!

so you only care or comment (either way) if it affects you/your business directly?

Interesting

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SleeplessInEngland · 28/09/2022 09:49

They have no interest at all in working people who do well and earn a good living
They think we should all work and look after those who did not bother to get qualification

Yes, sounds like you were a true red-blooded labour voter.

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CapMarvel · 28/09/2022 09:51

"What can we do?"

Stop voting tory. Pretty obvious, really.

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ChilliBandit · 28/09/2022 09:51

I think the only thing anyone who dislikes this government can do is to vote for the non-Tory party that have most chance of winning in your constituency be that Labour/Lib Dem/Green/SNP/Plaid etc. I am normally a Labour voter but would happily vote Lib Dem if it meant ousting our Tory incumbent MP (who is also a shit local MP and does nothing for our area except for a bit of ribbon cutting in exchange for some free food and drink).

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ChilliBandit · 28/09/2022 09:51

@SleeplessInEngland - I thought the exact same thing at that post.

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DameHelena · 28/09/2022 09:55

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Are you sure you meant you worked for Labour?

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Desmorelda · 28/09/2022 09:57

To me it's like the 'footballification' of politics. As if once you've picked your side you cannot stray. I really don't get it when people say 'I'm a tory/ labour voter'. Like they just vote blindly with no research.
A labour government actually wants the same things as a tory government - protecting and growing the economy, encouraging hard work and aspiration but recognises that not all of us have equal opportunities to do that. Why do folk think they would want anything different ? I guess it's just how it's done that differs but nowadays even the LP is in favour of a market economy to some extent.
A PP mentions free breakfast clubs. I agree it should be means tested/ based on need and not across the board but research suggests there are hundreds of thousands of children going hungry to school which impacts learning and behaviour and ultimately academic achievement....

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Desmorelda · 28/09/2022 09:57

@sheener sure 😂

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ThorsBedazzler · 28/09/2022 09:58

Oh dear. Sorry to hear that the Tory party no longer have your support because they do things that no longer benefit you. Welcome to the club of... ooph... anyone who has been actively deprived by a Tory government.

I despise the idea that if someone just works hard enough and pulls themselves up by the bootstrap then they can be a Tory Pinnacle of Success. Thst only works if you come from a position of privilege, some level of financial security or you exploit others while gaining a foothold in torytopia.

For everyone who lives with systemic deprivation, who cannot afford to take risks because they would lose the house or not feed their children, or who aren't in the private sector, life doesn't work that way.

Anyone who voted for the tory party should be ashamed at the fact their explicit support for one single self benefiting policy was also an implicit support for all of the many other racist, elitist, financially damaging policies.

If you don't want to vote Labour, don't vote Labour. There are other parties to choose from.

If you keep voting tory then well... enjoy, lap it up. Hope you are happy.

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KimberleyClark · 28/09/2022 09:58

I'm not but I know a large number of Conservative members feel like their party has been stolen from them.

A lot of Labour members myself included felt like that under Tony Blair, like he’d ripped the heart out of our party. I left the party because of him.

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malificent7 · 28/09/2022 09:58

Ffs .....it has always been the case that the conservatives are there for the elite. That is why they are called conservatives...they don't want to change the class system...they want to reinforce it.
This bollocks about wanting to help small businesses is ...well...bollocks. the only businesses they want to support are multi million conglomerates who can make money for them and their mates.Most of these businesses support the use of hydrocarbons which destroy our planet. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this energy crisis is a way for the elite to profit these huge hydrocarbon industries further anyway. "Fuck the little people....cream off the cash while you can as it's all going to shit anyway"mentality.

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MarshaBradyo · 28/09/2022 10:00

KimberleyClark · 28/09/2022 09:58

I'm not but I know a large number of Conservative members feel like their party has been stolen from them.

A lot of Labour members myself included felt like that under Tony Blair, like he’d ripped the heart out of our party. I left the party because of him.

I suppose we’ll get that wherever we sit as parties are quite broad

Whereas Blair made Labour electable to me and Corbyn didn’t - not just me but many in the electorate which is where it counts if anyone wants to be in power

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BluOcty · 28/09/2022 10:01

It's difficult though, it was clear who Liz Truss was. Britannia Unchained, anyone? And Tory party members chose her. This IS who the Tories are.

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malificent7 · 28/09/2022 10:01

I strongly suspect that the line trotted out " if you work hard, you too can be as rich as Jacob Rees Mogg," is a ruse to keep us slaving away for these big companies anyway.

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Mardyface · 28/09/2022 10:04

It's not that conservatism had stopped working. It never worked. You've just noticed it's stopped working for you.

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Bunnyfuller · 28/09/2022 10:05

Lots of people aren’t poor because ‘they didn’t work hard’. This is a divisive narrative, designed to soothe the soul of policies which favour the rich and cripple the poor. This narrative generates a hatred of anyone with less, because the assumption is there that they could ‘better themselves’ if they weren’t so lazy.

Does your minimum wage worker, working 3 jobs just to survive not ‘work hard’, do care assistants, nurses, teachers, police officers, not work hard? Say if we all ‘better ourselves’ (by that I mean magically find the money and time to retrain and get a top paying job with no experience) who does those other things? And those with disabilities, learning difficulties, caring responsibilities at home, are they ‘not working hard’.

Success means many things, and penalising those who don’t have the same opportunities or shock horror, have a vocation to help their fellow human, because ‘they don’t work hard’ is a simplistic, utterly inaccurate and selfish way of thinking.

Next time one of you or yours needs an ambulance, or hospital stay, or the police, make sure you tell them ‘they don’t work hard’.

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1dayatatime · 28/09/2022 10:05

@GyozaGuiting

"Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off. "


I certainly don't "hate" you for being a Conservative Party member and indeed would 100% share your view that a core competence of any Government is sound economics and growing the economy through open markets and creating conditions for businesses to thrive but not through externality costs to wider society (such as pollution or workers safety)

The problem is that the Conservative Party you originally supported no longer exists or as you put it "This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism".

The Conservatives started with Cameron then May then Johnson and now Truss - dumbing down every step of the way so that the current Government is effectively the "D Team" and it is very clearly showing.

The fault sadly lies with party members in choosing their leaders and the electorate in 2019 voting for Johnson. The solution is a horrific recession with high inflation, people losing their homes and their jobs for two years. After which a Labour Gov or a Labour/ Liberal coalition and the Conservatives in the wilderness for at least 10 years.

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HMSSophia · 28/09/2022 10:06

LifeOnATrain · 28/09/2022 08:08

the biggest problem is the lack of opposition. Good opposition holds the party in power to account. We just don't have any good political leadership anywhere. There's a giant political vacuum at the moment.

What?? WHAT?? You're making out "the biggest problem" is the poor opposition? Fuck my life that's rich.

So you're only responsible for what you do if there is a proper "opposition"?
How the Tories twist and turn to avoid taking fucking responsibility for their abhorrent party and it's actions.

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Brefugee · 28/09/2022 10:09

the tories purport to be about free markets and reducing state intervention - so isn’t that exactly what they have done under this concept of trickle down economics. Ie reduced the additional rate to free up cash for investment and very much reduce state intervention/state benefits that cash would have gone to

What the Conservatives should stand for, based on how they were set up, etc, is probably more (much as i loathed her) what Thatcher wanted. Low state involvement, low regulation and the barest of safety nets. That is obviously not possible, because regulation is vital in so many areas (workplace safety, banking regulations etc etc). What we are now seeing is a massive lurch to a society that is eveyone-for-themselves without the correct amount of time to move away from the safety nets we have now. (you can't suddenly say "from tomorrow no more state pensions" and expect anyone except those who are born that day to accept this abrupt change without problems)

The labour party was founded to fight for the rights of workers. Paid holidays, standardised hours, salaries, sick leave, weekends etc etc. Sure, they started out with solid Marxist principles (that i don't believe are entirely wrong) of public ownership of the means of production. That does not exclude private ownership of non-means-of-production busineses. So health, fuel, water etc - which are essential for life in public ownership, shops and service industries that are not essential for life private ownership is fine (as long as they keep to the rules of non-exploitation of workers and pay fair tax). The current labour party is not close to that any more.

PP mentioned the Labour party being incompetent at economics because they would use tax for breakfast clubs. See above: the need for these things (FSM etc) is accute. You can't just say "nope, they're gone" without a process of moving to a different system. Not without problems.

What i really don't get is how and why people aren't on the streets about these things? And I do get the problem of defining a woman is desperately needed and urgent: but bloody hell, not voting for a party based on that one thing? when everything else is a bloody bin-fire? I also don't understand that. If you are a natural labour supporter how the heck do you vote tory because of that one thing? (yep - I'm pretty much a Marxist. so sue me. I think i gave the Tories a fair go there)

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WindsweptNotInteresting · 28/09/2022 10:15

Part of the problem in this country is the press, a very large proportion of which is owned by right-wing supporters (Murdoch, Lord Rothermere etc). The reporting bias is shocking at times.

I was not a huge Corbyn supporter, but when you look at the way he was vilified and ridiculed in the press compared to Boris (who arguably had far more reason to be criticised) it makes you realise how the Tories have managed to stay in power for so long.

People will, a lot of the time, believe what they read in the papers. If your paper is playing down the appalling behaviour by their preferred politicians, people will believe they are not really that bad. If they are harping on about Keir Starmer being a "personality vacuum" (as a PP said for example), that is what people will believe is important ("yes Boris is a liar and a serial womaniser, but Keir is so bland").

The budget actually works in out favour, as we are a high income household. But do you know what? We do not need an extra grand or whatever it would equate to a year. I would much rather that money be put towards those who are struggling - and there is a shockingly increasing number. This idea of a trickle down economy is farcical.

I wish we could have a more balanced and fair press in this country. The hate and vitriol a lot of the papers spout is truly awful.

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