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AIBU?

Any Conservatives out there?

194 replies

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 07:53

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

163 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
28%
You are NOT being unreasonable
72%
Brefugee · 28/09/2022 11:27

One good thing about Starmer is doesn’t have these sore feelings over so many abandoning Labour due to Corbyn,

i don't follow Labour that closely. I just know that their infighting and shit-talking made it impossible for a lot of people to vote for them. And that as much as anything, from what i read, caused a Tory landslide. That makes me very angry.

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Ellmau · 28/09/2022 11:32

A lot of it's to do with Brexit, not Brexit itself necessarily, but because most of the sensible/informed/intelligent MPs were against it and many of them have been pushed out as a result.

Then multiple changes of leader meaning those who supported anyone other than the winner each time also got sidelined.

Leaving us with Truss and her team.

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Couldyounot · 28/09/2022 11:33

All this is another example, as if it were needed, of why it is a bad idea to let extremists and ideologues take charge of things. All that matters to such people is loyalty and ideological purity. OP, put simply, you and others like you need to get your party back from these people. Good luck, you'll need it.

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DameHelena · 28/09/2022 11:34

Iamanunsafebuilding · 28/09/2022 08:27

My local MP is Conservative and is a good local MP, my voting preference is generally centre-right so until fairly recently I was happy to vote for him. I am appalled and outraged at the current government and as for Liz Truss, I have no words. A Labour council has been awful for my town and I think Kier is a personality vacuum.

Good politics needs a strong opposition, regardless of who is in power. The government should be forced to adapt their policies to benefit everyone. This is a shit show and I will never forgive David Cameron for Brexit

If you're going to personally criticise Keir Starmer, at least have the decency to spell his name right.

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DameHelena · 28/09/2022 11:38

CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 10:50

@perenniallymessyAnd those who think it's not worth voting Labour/LibDem as they live in a safe Conservative seat- please just go out and vote anyway once we have a general election.”

Exactly this. It’s lazy. And misses the point. If you’ve not tried to vote then you have no say if you don’t like the outcome.

And if women’s rights are so important to those claiming Labour don’t know what a woman is, then they should vote anyway. Women’s right to vote was hard earned. Knowing suffragette history I feel it’s disrespectful to them to not vote at all.

People so often bring up the suffragettes to try to guilt/shame women into voting, but I never see anyone trying to guilt and shame men into voting by invoking, say, the Chartists.

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LuffleGro · 28/09/2022 11:48

Until we have PR we are stuck in a two-party system so the only way to get rid of this shit show is to vote Labour. You don't have to agree with everything they stand for. It is just literally the only way to get rid of the ERG now.

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maddy68 · 28/09/2022 11:54

This party is no longer conservative. These are ukip ERG

Unrecognisable

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emmetgirl · 28/09/2022 11:56

Sorry but how they are behaving is exactly how I expect them to behave. They're the Conservative party. This is who they are. It's bullshit to say otherwise.

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Checkitoutnow · 28/09/2022 11:57

DameHelena · 28/09/2022 11:38

People so often bring up the suffragettes to try to guilt/shame women into voting, but I never see anyone trying to guilt and shame men into voting by invoking, say, the Chartists.

Have you never heard anyone say “people died for your right to vote”?

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Checkitoutnow · 28/09/2022 12:00

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 07:53

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

Sorry OP, but it’s been fairly clear for a good few years now (since Cameron’s Chumocracy) and post brexit that the Conservative Party was not the party it purports to be.

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Brefugee · 28/09/2022 12:02

People so often bring up the suffragettes to try to guilt/shame women into voting, but I never see anyone trying to guilt and shame men into voting by invoking, say, the Chartists.

the fight to get women the vote is in people's memories (some can just about remember it but they would be super old)
My great grandma was arrested for throwing bricks (and force fed), and so this point has been hammered home to us since i can remember as a child.

And men rarely make the comments about "labour not knowing what a man is" and making things ridiculously single-issue, as well as nobody can remember the chartists because it was long ago. Having said that: whenever i have encountered someone online or IRL who has said something like "i never vote, they all lie" they are always countered with things about how our votes are a hard won right.

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TeaKlaxon · 28/09/2022 12:02

LuffleGro · 28/09/2022 11:48

Until we have PR we are stuck in a two-party system so the only way to get rid of this shit show is to vote Labour. You don't have to agree with everything they stand for. It is just literally the only way to get rid of the ERG now.

It depends on the constituency.

Agree that the only alternative to a Conservative Government is a Labour Government.

But in each constituency, anyone who wants the Tories out of power should look up previous election results and vote tactically for whichever party can beat the Tories. In my constituency that will be the Liberal Democrats so that’s who I’ll vote for.

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CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 12:04

DameHelena · 28/09/2022 11:38

People so often bring up the suffragettes to try to guilt/shame women into voting, but I never see anyone trying to guilt and shame men into voting by invoking, say, the Chartists.

Do you say the same at war memorials? Lest we forget… it’s all the same theme about not taking freedom and privileges for granted because they’ve been fought for.

Not knowing the history means people take voting for granted. I actually don’t remember being taught either suffragette or Chartist history at school. I wonder why the government kept that out the curriculum?

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SleeplessInEngland · 28/09/2022 12:07

LOL

Gabriel Pogrund
EXC: Rishi Sunak will not attend Conservative Party conference. He’ll be in Yorkshire instead.
Ally says former chancellor will give Truss all the space she needs to own the moment.

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BetterFuture1985 · 28/09/2022 12:08

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 07:53

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

I'm in the odd position of having been quite left wing in my 20s but slowly becoming more conservative in my 30s. My experience has been that this has made me less rather than more likely to vote Tory, so you are not unreasonable at all!

The Tories are basically a Gerontocratic Socialist Party. They exist solely in the interests of the very wealthy and normally quite old (think retired) people and it has led them to make some appalling decisions over the past 12 years.

We now live in a country where aspiration is punished. Perhaps it is a remnant of my leftiness, but I still think higher education should be free, at least for vocationally useful courses. Lumbering someone with a 9% "aspiration tax" for getting an essential qualification to enter the professions just seems plain wrong to me and something Thatcher would never have done. This aspiration tax means a graduate earning only £30k can be paying a marginal tax rate in excess of 40%.

Yet we also live in a country that wastes extraordinary amounts of money and asks citizens to take no responsibility for themselves, provided they are old enough. So we see pensions having an unaffordable triple lock applied with no consideration as to whether perhaps the wealthiest pensioners should get less in order to keep government spending under control. We have also seen this government offer this entire generation social care that they haven't paid for to protect their assets, rather than expecting individuals to buy insurance and take responsibility for themselves. This lumbered working age people with yet another tax rise.

What else? Oh yes, Help to Buy. Classic Keynesian demand push inflation, a stupid policy. Tax cuts when inflation is running at 10%. Bonkers, Thatcher controlled the money supply first and got the economy stabilised before making tax cuts. Cronyism, like those COVID contracts with vendors that failed to deliver (and were never sued for the money back). That one is classic Soviet corruption.

So yeah, I find myself now as a nominally "higher earner" living in a crappy three bed semi previously owned by a factory worker, I pay a 68% rate of tax on amounts earned between £50-60k because of the child benefit changes and I've basically got a living standard far, far below the one enjoyed by colleagues 20 years my senior had when I began my career.

Oh, and then there's Brexit and all the grief that causes in my day job and to people trying to export. So yes, I would like a nice centre-right party to vote for and will probably settle for the Lib Dems. There's no way I'm voting Tory.

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CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 12:10

@BrefugeeHaving said that: whenever i have encountered someone online or IRL who has said something like "i never vote, they all lie" they are always countered with things about how our votes are a hard won right.

The ‘I never vote they all lie’ is a fatalist attitude that needs challenging.

It’s like saying “I never cut the grass but it all grows back anyway. What’s the point?” Or, “I never clean the house because it’ll get dirty again anyway. What’s the point?”. Just lazy.

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maddy68 · 28/09/2022 12:14

Labour have become a centre right party under starmer. (Old fashioned Tories).
I will probably vote labour (or whoever is best placed to unseat the Tory candidate )

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UnagiForLife · 28/09/2022 12:15

I’m sorry but this country and the Conservative party was doomed the moment the brexit referendum result was declared and David Cameron bailed, you could see on his face he realised what he’d done to this country at that moment. The referendum was a gamble he lost just to try and keep his party in power. Ever since that moment things have gone from bad to worse. I often wonder how things might be different if just a few more people have voted to stay in the EU and the balance had tipped the other way.

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blackpearwhitelilies · 28/09/2022 12:16

I'm astonished that people had respect for Theresa May, though agree that she was light-years better than Johnson or Truss. She suppressed immigration reports that said that immigration was beneficial, pursued heartless repatriation policies - eg Windrush - and then sent Amber Rudd out to face the music. She was the one who set the narrative of Brexit with her ludicrous red lines and that ridiculous mantra 'Brexit means Brexit'. She sacked Michael Heseltine for disagreeing with her. And it was obvious to the dogs on the street what Johnson was like well before 2019, and again what Truss was like before this year. Tory members and voters have enabled this entire, sorry shitshow and I'm sick to the back teeth of the whole 'Can you imagine what Labour would have been like?' Yes - I bloody can - a hell of a lot better than this shower. And I really dislike Corbyn for his stance on Brexit, but I still voted Labour in 2019, because anything, anything at the moment would be better than this Tory party, especially after Johnson booted anyone who showed the remotest glimmer of common sense.

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BetterFuture1985 · 28/09/2022 12:17

CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 12:10

@BrefugeeHaving said that: whenever i have encountered someone online or IRL who has said something like "i never vote, they all lie" they are always countered with things about how our votes are a hard won right.

The ‘I never vote they all lie’ is a fatalist attitude that needs challenging.

It’s like saying “I never cut the grass but it all grows back anyway. What’s the point?” Or, “I never clean the house because it’ll get dirty again anyway. What’s the point?”. Just lazy.

Sometimes that's true. But imagine you lived in my constituency and none of the smaller parties were running because it's a Tory uber safe seat where the only likely outcome for the Greens or Volt (who I would like to vote for) is a lost deposit. I'm normally faced with this choice:

Tory: Not a fucking chance
Labour: Support Brexit, so not a fucking chance
Lib Dems: Won't reverse Brexit and it's their fault Tories got in in the first place, so not a fucking chance
Far Right Oddball: Not a fucking snowball's chance in hell

The polling station isn't far away so I will stroll over to spoil my ballot but if there's a queue I won't wait.

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OldieButBaddie · 28/09/2022 12:18

Not a Conservative (I vote Lib Dem to keep them out locally, natural home Labour) but if I were in your shoes I would be voting for whoever would oust them. They need to be sent a message that their party will not accept this extreme right wing version. There will likely be a split in the party or at the very least they will engineer out these ideologues and incompetents to make way for the One Nation version again.

It is quite terrifying that we are in the hands of these people, we need to pull together to get rid of them! If that means voting for someone who wouldn't be your usual choice (as I do) then bite the bullet and do it!

My Father has voted Tory all his life, he's 86 and horrified at what's going on, he will be voting Lib Dem to keep them out as it's close run where he is. I feel proud of him for this!

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CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 12:18

UnagiForLife · 28/09/2022 12:15

I’m sorry but this country and the Conservative party was doomed the moment the brexit referendum result was declared and David Cameron bailed, you could see on his face he realised what he’d done to this country at that moment. The referendum was a gamble he lost just to try and keep his party in power. Ever since that moment things have gone from bad to worse. I often wonder how things might be different if just a few more people have voted to stay in the EU and the balance had tipped the other way.

This. @DameHelena is why encouraging people to exercise their right to vote is important.

The people who went out and voted did so because of an understanding of what it means to vote. They got a chance to make a difference.

Many people who don’t vote were shocked that the Brexit result happened. And regretted not voting. Having ignored the “don’t you realise people died for your right to vote” warnings.

Voting is power agency.

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DameHelena · 28/09/2022 12:25

Checkitoutnow · 28/09/2022 11:57

Have you never heard anyone say “people died for your right to vote”?

Um, yes; that's part of my point.
The other part being that it's always people invoking the female suffragettes and it's always aimed at women.

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SleeplessInEngland · 28/09/2022 12:26

Tory: Not a fucking chance
Labour: Support Brexit, so not a fucking chance
Lib Dems: Won't reverse Brexit and it's their fault Tories got in in the first place, so not a fucking chance
Far Right Oddball: Not a fucking snowball's chance in hell

I say this as someone who recognises brexit as the biggest self-inflicted wound this country has committed in my lifetime: there's nothing Starmer can do about it now. 'Supporting brexit' doesn't materially mean anything anymore. Even many remainers are wary of opening the 'rejoin the EU' wound again for a generation. The failiure of brexit speaks for itself every single day now.

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DameHelena · 28/09/2022 12:26

CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 12:18

This. @DameHelena is why encouraging people to exercise their right to vote is important.

The people who went out and voted did so because of an understanding of what it means to vote. They got a chance to make a difference.

Many people who don’t vote were shocked that the Brexit result happened. And regretted not voting. Having ignored the “don’t you realise people died for your right to vote” warnings.

Voting is power agency.

I don't disagree that people need to vote and to understand why it's important. What I was saying is that it's always aimed at women, as if we are the only ones who were ever denied suffrage and therefore should carry all the guilt for not voting.

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