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AIBU?

Any Conservatives out there?

194 replies

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 07:53

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

163 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
28%
You are NOT being unreasonable
72%
TeaKlaxon · 28/09/2022 10:16

ginghamstarfish · 28/09/2022 09:47

I too have always leaned towards Conservatism but yes their time is coming to an end. Sadly there is no viable opposition in my opinion. Labour have at least got rid of the unelectable Corbyn, but still .... and they can say whatever sounds good at the party conference, as any opposition party does, but are unlikely to follow through.

Of course there's a viable opposition. You have absolutely no reason to claim that Labour won't follow through on what they're promising. One upside of Starmer being an occassionally excessively cautious leader is that it's very likely that pledges are only made after the party knows they can deliver them.

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Eeksteek · 28/09/2022 10:17

GottaGetOutofDairy · 28/09/2022 08:01

As an aside, this is where divisive politics gets us: there have been massive red flags all along the journey to this point (not least in who has been fired, who has been hired and in what posts - in far reaching roles well outside the cabinet) but the culture wars means that people automatically disbelieve 'the other side'.

Once they identifiy with a camp, it's almost impossible for them to believe criticism that's seen to come from outside. Hence the tags such as 'loonie lefties' or 'remoaners' or whatever it is. It's a culture war tactic to undermine critics so that real debate and scrutiny is avoided.

Indeed. You can vote labour so they get the message that it’s not acceptable, and then vote for them once they’ve got some integrity together again. You don’t have to change your identity, just choose the least worst option right now. it doesn’t have to be revolution, and fix everything at once, it can be evolution and gradually improve.

Also, its been obvious for years their strategy was rape and pillage. Expect a fair bit of I told you so if you’ve been defending them. Sorry.

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Bunnyfuller · 28/09/2022 10:17

@Brefugee yes, voting on the one issue of women/GC is so short sighted, the country is tanking and who is what fucking sex/gender/banana pales in the face of what’s happening.

Vote this lot out, then work on that issue, if you want to. Tories only use it as part of their bigger ‘conservative’ views on anything different. Just think where that could creep to if they’re allowed continued free rein.

I would rather my government know what poverty is, and what causes it, before their view on transgender, which frankly is barely talked about.

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TeaKlaxon · 28/09/2022 10:18

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Sure Jan.

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TeaKlaxon · 28/09/2022 10:23

ChilliBandit · 28/09/2022 09:51

I think the only thing anyone who dislikes this government can do is to vote for the non-Tory party that have most chance of winning in your constituency be that Labour/Lib Dem/Green/SNP/Plaid etc. I am normally a Labour voter but would happily vote Lib Dem if it meant ousting our Tory incumbent MP (who is also a shit local MP and does nothing for our area except for a bit of ribbon cutting in exchange for some free food and drink).

Exactly.

Unless someone is in an ultra safe seat (which there are far too many of thanks to the awful First Past the Post system), if they're not voting, they're essentially voting for the Tories.

Of course people can choose to do that, but they should own it. This bollox of 'I don't like the Tories but can't vote for Labour' is self-serving BS. If someone is going to allow a Tory Government, they should at least have the guts to own that decision.

I'll also vote tactically. Prefer Labour to the LibDems (preferred the LibDems to Labour when Corbyn was leader) but will vote LibDem as they have the best chance of beating the Tories where I am. If everyone who wants the Tories out (about two thirds of voters) also voted tactically, then the Tories would be decimated. This is no time to be a purist.

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CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 10:23

@GottaGetOutofDairyOnce they identifiy with a camp, it's almost impossible for them to believe criticism that's seen to come from outside. Hence the tags such as 'loonie lefties' or 'remoaners' or whatever it is. It's a culture war tactic to undermine critics so that real debate and scrutiny is avoided.

This.

But this also is what makes floating voters like me stop and question, because it is obvious that it’s a culture war tactic.

Formula seems to be:

Labour or Lib Dems make a good suggestion.

Conservative respond by name calling them, ‘woke’ or something.

All that makes me want to do is probe the Conservatives’ name calling claims further for the truth. Because name calling is childish. Adults can see through childish behaviour and playground tactics.

The same applies the other way around. When Labour or LibDems call the Conservatives “nasty” or “selfish” or something, I look for the truth. It’s not always true…

But with Truss I do think she’s being very insular with the tax cuts for those on over £150k juxtaposed with higher borrowing and higher cost of borrowing during a cost of living crisis for everyone else under the £150k mark. She might know people on over that amount and sides with those in her circle, but that’s part of her being insular and disconnected with the country.

In principle I agree that people should get to keep more of the money they earn. But what Truss actually means is that the higher tax bracket people should get to keep more of the money they earn because they pay more tax. Truss doesn’t understand that people in the position of £150k are rare and it’s more likely down to luck and networking (who you know).

Truss is being unfair. She just can’t see how or why because of her own bubble.

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KLFisgonnarockya · 28/09/2022 10:25

somewhereovertherain · 28/09/2022 08:00

How any business owner could vote for this shower of shit I’ll never know.(and yes I own two businesses)

from Brexit forward it’s all been about party and never about what’s best for the country.

This. I’ve never voted Tory but 100% this!

they’ve ruined this country with their selfish obsessions.

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colddayinhell · 28/09/2022 10:34

I'm won't be voting. Neither party cares about the voters, they are only interested in feathering their own nests and pushing the interests of big business and besides, both parties are almost identical now (Labour are basically the same old nu-Labour with a less charismatic Blair clone in charge) and the Tories are basically blue nu-Labour (none of their policies are that different - mass immigration to suppress wages subsidised by ever increasing unaffordable welfare state paid by the taxes of PAYE plebs, massive push for reckless net zero, unaffordable, poor quality housing because neither party wants to build social homes (nuLabour didn't build any), everyone encouraged to take out massive debt (started under nu Labour )). Whoever you vote for you get the same globalist party.

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beguilingeyes · 28/09/2022 10:37

". A Labour council has been awful for my town and I think Kier is a personality vacuum"

The cult of personality is what got us into this mess. People voted for Boris in large part because he#d been marginally amusing on telly and they thought he was a wag. It's not The X Factor...just give me someone competent.

The right wing press is a huge problem. Corbyn wasn't perfect by any means by he was destroyed by the media. Johnson got a free ride. Can you imagine the uproar if Corbyn had moved his pregnant mistress into no.10? Or had been shagging Jennifer Arcuri?

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perenniallymessy · 28/09/2022 10:40

I think many people in this country are fairly centrist in their politics- Labour did well under Blair because they moved towards the centre (and the Conservative part was too busy infighting after 18 years in government), then when they moved to the left under Corbyn they lost votes. In 2010 the LibDems got a lot of support but got tarnished by being part of the coalition.

The Conservatives are busily moving over to the right, so I think a lot of people are moving back to Labour now and they are a more palatable choice to centrists than Tory. Unfortunately I think we need at least some of the media to get behind Labour, as they did in 1997, for there to be a landslide.

And those who think it's not worth voting Labour/LibDem as they live in a safe Conservative seat- please just go out and vote anyway once we have a general election. I live in a seat that had a pretty decent Tory majority in 2010 and 2015; in 2017 the Labour candidate took a short leave of absence from his job to campaign, thinking there was no chance of getting elected. In the end he got over 50% of the votes and just under 50% in 2019. The Tory was ousted because she was vocally pro-Brexit in a constituency that was heavily pro-remain, people felt she was hugely out of touch with her electorate.

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CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 10:44

@beguilingeyesThe cult of personality is what got us into this mess.”

Isn’t that a political warning that William Golding points to in ‘Lord of the Flies’?

Piggy was the best one for leadership. But he didn’t look the part and didn’t have charisma.

Voters are shallow…

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Shortname · 28/09/2022 10:44

@GyozaGuiting Im really glad you started this thread. I have flirted between labour and lib dem all my life but its really great to hear from a measured, reasonable tory voter and read your very sound reasoning for voting that way. We may not agree on politics but I absolutely respect what you have written and in this day and age with the extremely divisive nature of politics its very reassuring to think that actually most people on either side of the party politics is probably a decent human being (you don't often get that vibe here)

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CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 10:50

@perenniallymessyAnd those who think it's not worth voting Labour/LibDem as they live in a safe Conservative seat- please just go out and vote anyway once we have a general election.”

Exactly this. It’s lazy. And misses the point. If you’ve not tried to vote then you have no say if you don’t like the outcome.

And if women’s rights are so important to those claiming Labour don’t know what a woman is, then they should vote anyway. Women’s right to vote was hard earned. Knowing suffragette history I feel it’s disrespectful to them to not vote at all.

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CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 10:51

^vote anyway for whoever. Just vote. It’s a precious hard won women’s right.

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LetMeSpeak · 28/09/2022 10:54

Vote labour, green, Lib Dem whichever is going to remove your Tory MP. It’s nice to hear a conservative actually come out against this nonsense.

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Lottie4 · 28/09/2022 10:57

I'm a floating voter, but lean towards Conservative. Never in a million years would I have ever considered Labour in the past, but I feel like we desperately need an alternative and now. I'd even forgive Boris for all his misdemeanours. I'd really like to see Conservatives prove all us doubters wrong, but if they don't Keir is right that labour will inherit a mess.

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Blossomtoes · 28/09/2022 10:58

CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 10:51

^vote anyway for whoever. Just vote. It’s a precious hard won women’s right.

This x 1000. Get out and vote tactically.

@GyozaGuiting, this isn’t the party lifelong Conservatives have voted for all their lives. It’s a travesty. It needs to be told it’s gone too far.

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CurseOfBigness · 28/09/2022 11:01

@Lottie4I'd really like to see Conservatives prove all us doubters wrong, but if they don't Keir is right that labour will inherit a mess.”

The mess is why I think it’s fairer for the conservatives to win. They made the mess. They should clean it up themselves.

At present, Truss and KK have made a mess. It’s their stubbornness that’s infuriating.

No one who says “I told you so” gets more than a transient satisfaction from being right. They would prefer to have been wrong or listened to from the start.

And Sunak was right on this. He understood economics better than KK and Truss do.

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Brefugee · 28/09/2022 11:03

but this isn’t a party of aspiration anymore. It’s a party of grasping.

Not anymore - but as OP pointed out, it used to be and should be the party of aspiration. As several of us have pointed out, good government is about lifting everyone, the only difference is how they do it. Were i a traditional Tory voter i would be spitting feathers at having my party hijacked by late-stage-capitalists. Selling off the utilities, the railways etc was the start of the slippery slope, but it has snowballed in the last 20 years or so.

A Labour council has been awful for my town and I think Kier is a personality vacuum

2 things here. Under the Tories, labour run councils have been starved with cash. Tory politicians blatantly told voters in Labour areas to vote for them and they would then allocate more funds. This is appalling - but frankly, who can blame people for falling for it? Did it actually happen? (I don't know, i am only relatively superficially interested in UK politics as i don't live there). Red Wall voters - well, they have reaped what they sowed, unfortunately. They fell for it.

About Starmer's personality - i think he's trying hard to take personality back out of it. The Cult Of BoJo is frightening. As is the Cult of Truss. She is now using what (hopefully little) time she has in power to transfer wealth and influence to her mates. I agree with pp that the personality cults have been awful for politics, and we need to move away from it.

PP mentioned they won't vote Labour because they never do what they say in the manifesto. Meh. No actual party does. Voters must hold them to account for that. There should also be an actual formula for how money is allocated to regions/areas so that the party in power can't just say "fuckers voted for the others" and cut money that leads to FSM disappearing and other services severely impacted.

Nothing is going to change overnight after an election - except for the worst, as we can see with the latest mini-budget.

But voters must be aware what they are doing: fine, vote for your own self-interest because that is normal. But don't then come bleating to everyone when the logical progression of what you have voted for means that you no longer get what you think you deserve.

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SafferUpNorth · 28/09/2022 11:05

@GyozaGuiting ... sorry to say, your party has been hijacked but a bunch of self-serving, cronyist idiots. Come the next GE (which will hopefully be sooner than 2024) you'll just have to swallow your misgivings and vote tactically to get them out.

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ThorsBedazzler · 28/09/2022 11:06

To be fair to those turned off Labour by Corbyn, his Labour politics were much more left wing than the Labour Party wanted or were used to, especially after New Labour era.

He was a fantastic orator. Corbyn was excellent at engaging with younger voters and getting support. Had he been a bit more centrally based in his politics, he would have been accepted by the Labour Party on a wider basis and I think would not only have been the leader but probably would have swung a Labour election win.

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Bunnyfuller · 28/09/2022 11:15

It would be good if we were made to vote for policies, not people. Take the party identity and personalities out of it, and just vote on the direction of the country. That way, people would be forced to think about issues plural, and the effect of the country/economy/their standard of living.

and the parties have to actually do what they’ve promised, or out they go. I don’t want my PM to be chosen because ‘I don’t like the other one’ or ‘I’m not voting Labour/conservative etc’ or ‘but he’s so funny’ or ‘get Brexit done’.

I want sound fiscal and social plans to make ALL of the UK and its people better.

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Brefugee · 28/09/2022 11:18

To be fair to those turned off Labour by Corbyn, his Labour politics were much more left wing than the Labour Party wanted or were used to, especially after New Labour era.

to be fair to traditional labour voters - Blair and his ilk told them to suck it up and get Labour in power. Pity the courtesy didn't extend the other way when Corbyn held the reins. And his so so so "radical" left-wingness would have been rubbed off a bit had they gained power anyway.

It would be good if we were made to vote for policies, not people

@Bunnyfuller yep. I used to say this a lot, a combination of PR and AV might help there (party lists from the 2nd vote)

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MarshaBradyo · 28/09/2022 11:24

Brefugee · 28/09/2022 11:18

To be fair to those turned off Labour by Corbyn, his Labour politics were much more left wing than the Labour Party wanted or were used to, especially after New Labour era.

to be fair to traditional labour voters - Blair and his ilk told them to suck it up and get Labour in power. Pity the courtesy didn't extend the other way when Corbyn held the reins. And his so so so "radical" left-wingness would have been rubbed off a bit had they gained power anyway.

It would be good if we were made to vote for policies, not people

@Bunnyfuller yep. I used to say this a lot, a combination of PR and AV might help there (party lists from the 2nd vote)

One good thing about Starmer is doesn’t have these sore feelings over so many abandoning Labour due to Corbyn,

He knows if he wants voters back he has to distance himself from that defeat and at least he’s unequivocal about how bad it was.

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SleeplessInEngland · 28/09/2022 11:26

Bank of England has just announced that to calm the markets it's buying bonds, just as it did in the 2008 crash.

All the shit that's happening is what tories said would happen under a corbyn government.

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