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AIBU?

Any Conservatives out there?

194 replies

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 07:53

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

163 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
28%
You are NOT being unreasonable
72%
SleeplessInEngland · 28/09/2022 09:11

Truss has been AWOL for three days now. Even Johnson wasn't that bad.

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SleeplessInEngland · 28/09/2022 09:12

the problem though is that as much as people want the conservatives out, the labour aren’t making themselves enough of a prospect to gain the votes that the conservatives lose.

Labour have been comfortably polling ahead of the tories since January, and YouGov just put them 17 points ahead, even before the conference announcements.

This notion that voters aren't into Labour either is very outdated.

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DameHelena · 28/09/2022 09:13

I've no sympathy for anyone who votes Tory and then moans about it. For years now their claim to be the party who are the most responsible with the economy has just been a (hollow) joke, and they've been tacking steadily rightwards.

And the premise that hard work pays off is a) not exclusively a Tory/right-wing one; you may find this amazing, but there are people of other political leanings who wouldn't entirely disagree and b) very simplistic, for reasons rehearsed by others upthread.

Having said that, I'm politically homeless just now as any party I have voted for or might vote for doesn't seem to know what to do about women's sex-based rights.

I think the only solution is a European-style grand coalition where all involved parties have to compromise and are slightly unhappy and things chug along pretty much down the middle. I'm sick of personality politics and of ideology and extremes.

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RudsyFarmer · 28/09/2022 09:13

Im a floating voter but I’ve no idea what they’re doing right now. Sadly I will never vote for labour so the best I can do is not vote in the next GE.

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MrsSkylerWhite · 28/09/2022 09:13

SleeplessInEngland · Today 09:11
Truss has been AWOL for three days now. Even Johnson wasn't that bad.“

She’s completely out of her depth, as is her chancellor.

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RudsyFarmer · 28/09/2022 09:14

think the only solution is a European-style grand coalition where all involved parties have to compromise and are slightly unhappy and things chug along pretty much down the middle. I'm sick of personality politics and of ideology and extremes.

Im thinking the same.

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GobbolinoTheWitchesCat · 28/09/2022 09:14

From speaking to someone who is a conservative member and who did vote in the leadership, it was all down to the fact that Rishi was a "snake" and stabbed Boris in the back

Which is astounding when you consider Boris' track record for loyalty.

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DameHelena · 28/09/2022 09:14

nonono1 · 28/09/2022 09:08

When voters in this country were offered a real chance at change they didn’t want it. At least if Corbyn had got in he’d have been on the side of the poor. Truss and Kwarteng only care about the rich.

I've voted Labour in the past but I couldn't and didn't vote for Corbyn. He appealed to only a very narrow section of potential Labour voters and any fool could see that he was unelectable in a GE.

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BuildersTeaMaker · 28/09/2022 09:14

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 07:53

I’m a Conservative party member, (don’t hate me). I am appalled by the party right now.

Conservative politics is about protecting and growing the economy by stimulating growth with open markets, less state intervention, creating conditions for businesses to thrive/self employment etc. It’s about measured competence and at its core is the premise that hard work pays off.

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this, it’s about elitism, which they don’t even try and hide anymore, the top 1-5%. It’s not hard work, it’s who you know.

I run a business and would have been eligible for one of those huge covid contracts, I didn’t even get to apply, but it went to one of their friends. I wrote to my MP and I just got sent a web link (none of the contracts were on there).

I can’t imagine voting labour (for reasons too numerous to mention), but I feel I couldn’t bring myself to vote for my MP right now.

Any other conservatives feel this way? What can we do?

I know this isn’t the point of your post. It your core belief is that “hard work pays off”.
that’s where you are going wrong
for many people hard work does NOT pay off. People work all the hours that god send, in shitty low salaried work on zero hours contract. Is that becuase they don’t work hard enough? What a bloody superior attitude you must have to really think that.
those people meeting out statement line this are squally born into privaledged households. Or have a strong financial start established by parents. Or have done well academically to get a degree. Not everyone is capable of that. Not everyone is gifted with the accedemic abilities to do a degree. It’s fuck all to do with hard work, it’s to do with genes, and their circumstances. If you come form a poor family with low expectations then it’s bloody hard to see how you can get to uni even if you could cope acedemically- you don’t have luxury of parenteral support to make up maintenance grant. And as for those that come from wealthier backgrounds jetting out this mantra : I’ve been poor and then wealthy and poor. It’s bloody easy to make money when you have money, or to save money when you have money. It’s so very hard work and difficult and depressing and stressful trying to save or make money when you have nowt. Again something that seems beyond the realm of understanding of conservatives like you with your “hard work is rewarded”
do nurses not work hard? Care workers? Fruit pickers? Carpet fitters?

i would go so far as to say the hyprocracy here is dripping. You voted for these charlatans and corrupt bunch of privaledged cronies. Don’t now go running away all passively saying “nothing to do with me, not what I wanted”…people with the attitude of “I’m wealthy cos I deserve it cos I worked hard” will always revert to type of looking after themselves first without any understanding of why people are poor, struggling etc

you put Truss where she is and all her cronies for keeping a party in power that is dominated with a culture that allows precisely this type of person to thrive.

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somewhereovertherain · 28/09/2022 09:17

GyozaGuiting · 28/09/2022 08:04

@somewhereovertherain in terms of running the business I’ve been helped a lot my Conservative policies; SEIS and EIS, DiT shows and missions as well as export projects and retail intros, we used the covid rates relief scheme and the government back to work scheme. I can’t fault them on these.

It’s specifically how it’s gone recently and the covid contracts that pissed me off!

sadly we’d class as excluded as work in tourism but not directly with public so didn’t qualify for any support in the schemes we could furlough employees

and considering they’d had 10 years to plan for a pandemic but binned it all to plan for a no deal Brexit.

and then you get to Brexit the biggest disaster for the uk in several generations.

guessing you don’t export or import.

also add in the fact that they’re still kicking some of the worst bits down the road which will impact more on goods coming in.

before we get to the destruction of the public sector.

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KleineDracheKokosnuss · 28/09/2022 09:17

I’m a member of the party. I hung on just to have a vote to replace the grand liar Boris. I voted for Sunak because at least he understands finance.

but this isn’t a party of aspiration anymore. It’s a party of grasping.

so in order to try and turf them out, and despite the fact they do t know what a woman is (though I think the court cases are helping there), I’m voting Lib Dem (tactical based on constituency).

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RelationshipsAreTooHard · 28/09/2022 09:17

I often wonder why people vote conservative (or why anyone would join the Tories) so it was very interesting to read your clearly outlined reasons.

I assume at one point the points you outlined were things the Tories were reasonably good at but obviously now they are not.

I agree with the others who said vote labour. Not just because labour is my party of choice but also because it's the only way to get the Tories to change. They will only change when they have lost power.

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MarshaBradyo · 28/09/2022 09:18

DameHelena · 28/09/2022 09:14

I've voted Labour in the past but I couldn't and didn't vote for Corbyn. He appealed to only a very narrow section of potential Labour voters and any fool could see that he was unelectable in a GE.

Exactly

Even Starmer doesn’t shy away from calling it a disastrous result for Labour

Theres no point in being blind to it if you do want to win. Fortunately he does get it

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Hollyhead · 28/09/2022 09:18

I have voted conservative in the past - 2010 and 15, not since though. I really think we’re at a stage where the moderate centrist MPs (of which there are loads) need to resign from the party and force a GE.

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DrBlackbird · 28/09/2022 09:19

the tories purport to be about free markets and reducing state intervention

The key word here is purport otherwise you got to be kidding, right? Putting aside the myth of ‘free’ markets, the Tories have, for a long time, been running a rentier economy with massive state subsidies for businesses including energy companies. So when you decry state interventions, I presume you mean welfare benefits not subsidies and tax breaks to the likes of Amazon etc?

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Namechangedforthisonetoday · 28/09/2022 09:23

I just want to be able to vote for a party that knows very clearly what a woman is and doesn’t fuck up the economy. Is that too much to ask?

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Peridot1 · 28/09/2022 09:27

Labour members have also just voted for electoral reform. Starmer and Rayner are apparently not massively in favour as far as I know but it could make a huge difference. First past the post is disastrous. And the Tory party don’t even use it in their leadership election.

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Gwlondon · 28/09/2022 09:29

I think be more active in your area. You have paid your membership now let the local party know what you think. Does your MP know about your business? Does your MP know about your disappointment with the covid contracts?

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Zilla1 · 28/09/2022 09:29

Have confirmed with the publications of record (UK right wing press) and Friday was officially a bonanza (referring to tax cuts not city boys filling their pockets from volatility). That won't stop them deeming an equivalent collapse in the exchange rate by a different government as incompetence and doom. Liz is just shaking up the orthodoxy about fiscal soundness for most of a term then pre-election tax giveaway, presumably because she has, at most, 2 years rather than a full term.

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FaazoHuyzeoSix · 28/09/2022 09:32

I was in the same yeargroup as Liz Truss at the University of Oxford, and looking around my group of friends from that yeargroup, any one of them would make a better prime minister than she and would come up with better policies - and yet none of them (none of us, me included) have ever stood for political office except the one who has been very active in Socialist Worker Party/Communist Party ultra-hard left politics ever since university (mostly in order to annoy and embarass his Tory father).

We have built a political system where the most intelligent and most able people wouldn't dream of going into politics - and it's not hard to see why. Generally people don't like voting for the most intelligent and most able people, they get sneered at and aren't popular. Women in politics get overwhelming amounts of misogynistic hate mail, and the press vilifies them for either being insufficiently feminine (if they prioritise getting the job done over performing femininity correctly) or if they do perform femininity well then they get criticised for that instead. The kind of people who can succeed in politics are the slimy and the devious, who know how to find ways to climb the greasy pole by treading on the hands of others while keeping their true natures hidden. Good people rarely succeed - yes there are exceptions, there are certainly well-meaning back-benchers who are diligent about doing their job and representing the interests of their constituents. They don't get a sniff of real power though.

There isn't a solution available in our lifetimes, I don't think. The whole political system is unfit for purpose and needs total reinvention, but that won't happen until there is a total breakdown of society and collapse of functionality - which is on its way but probably a good 70 years or so away.

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TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 28/09/2022 09:35

I've come to the conclusion that either the Conservative party has been infiltrated by 'fifth columnists' (and they are extremely pleased to see that their destructive methods are exceeding their expectations).

Or alternatively their policies are arrived at by using one of those 'Magic Robots' games.

Any Conservatives out there?
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Brefugee · 28/09/2022 09:40

to be honest, OP, i want more of you "normal" Conservative members to get a lot more active and push your leadership back to your proper Conservative values.

I have always maintained that the parties - say Conservative and Labour - both want what is best for the country and only disagree with the path to achieving that. Both should want to lift the living standards for everyone. But the Conservative party has lurched far to the right of that, so that in effect it is a kleptocratic party. A lot of the leaders and richer members probably look at what happened after the collapse of the Soviet Union and wish that would happen in the UK - they want to take all the pie and dole out miserable crumbs to the rest of us. That is not proper conservaism

The best answer for the UK, IMO, would be proportional representation resulting in a proper, grown-up coalition of 2 equal partners. The more extreme fringes of each of the parties in power would be smoothed off by the need to reach centrist consensus.

In that respect, i think you all need to hold your noses and vote for parties that will bring in PR. And the Labour party that we have now isn't as far from what you described as conservative values, i don't think a protest vote would change much in your life if they got in power, tbh.

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Zilla1 · 28/09/2022 09:42

@FaazoHuyzeoSix oddly the contemporaries from another place I'm aware of who are late entering politics/the wider gong factory are those who went into the City and made their money and are active in the party behind the scenes in fund raising and QUANGO NEDS and trajectory to gongs, rather than front line MP trajectory.

Their thinking is often seems to be that making money is the most important thing, they made money in the City so they must be the most intelligent and the best hence can understand things better about any other context than people who've spent decades in those sectors by deploying this greater intelligence. Don't ever get comfortable with contested means and ends as have lived in a simpler world with the denominator of profit. If something makes more profit then that is the thing to do.

Oddly zlthough they've filled their pockets, their contribution often seems to coincide with their personal financial interests while obviously being in the nation's interests. Very patriotic though that patriotism doesn't extend to the nation's poor. Pro Brexit at least until the results adversely affects their business interests too much then that's often the vindictive EU's fault.

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Donotgogentle · 28/09/2022 09:42

The Conservative Party has been taken over by the libertarian right, BJ ousted nearly all the moderates/one nation Tories.

I don’t agree KK is out of his depth. He’s a free market ideologue and he’s acted in accordance with his beliefs. Abolishing the cap on bankers bonuses and the 45% tax rate was a clear statement of that. Bound to be unpopular with a lot of people (even Conservative voters) but he’s made his position clear.

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GCAcademic · 28/09/2022 09:44

Lonelycrab · 28/09/2022 08:05

This Conservative party isn’t about any of this

Thats because it’s really UKIP and has been for a number of years. Isolationist, little englanders.

Yep. The 2016 Referendum was supposed to kill off UKIP. Instead it resulted in a purge of decent Conservative MPs over the next three years and the colonisation of the party by UKIP types.

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