Different to touch a mans pecs to a woman's breasts?

[imamearcat]

Did anyone see the thing where a woman touched 'Gastons' chest at Disney land?

I got into a bit of an argument on Facebook about it with people saying it was the same as a man touching someone's breasts. I just don't think it's the same at all. Not saying it's right, but not the same.

AIBU?

[quote imamearcat]@ABCeasyasdohrayme because there was obviously no threat to his safety, I think. I do think it was wrong of her but i don't feel he would be threatened in the same way a woman would feel having a random guy touch her boobs. [/quote]
So if a man walks up to a woman when she's in a public place and give her breasts a friendly squeeze is that OK? Because he's not a threat to her safety?

@sleepyhoglet

Just watched the video. Didn't see a problem. They are pecs not breasts. His chest and his character in the film is very flirtatious etc so she was having a pose with the character. She touched him for a matter of milli seconds and wasn't being sexual about it. I wonder was it more about social distancing than sexual touching. I felt sorry for her- it was made more awkward than it needed to be

So he was asking for it because he was flirty? It was OK for her to repeatedly try and touch him, despite him saying no, because of the character he was playing? victim blaming at its finest.

Just watched the video. Didn't see a problem. They are pecs not breasts. His chest and his character in the film is very flirtatious etc so she was having a pose with the character. She touched him for a matter of milli seconds and wasn't being sexual about it. I wonder was it more about social distancing than sexual touching. I felt sorry for her- it was made more awkward than it needed to be
I've heard it all now: a FICTIONAL character is flirtatious at times, therefore it's no big deal for someone to engage in unwanted touching in the real world.

I don't mean he was asking for it, but I haven't been to Disneyland. I assumed that characters would be in character so that a quick pose like that would be OK but weird to pose like that with Minnie Mouse etc.

@sleepyhoglet

I don't mean he was asking for it, but I haven't been to Disneyland. I assumed that characters would be in character so that a quick pose like that would be OK but weird to pose like that with Minnie Mouse etc.

When is sexual assault ever okay? Do you also think sexually assaulting servers at hooters is okay?

Touching anyone ANYWHERE without consent is intrusive unless in an emergency. Whether or not it is sexual.

It is not for anyone to decide whether he is "allowed" to feel uncomfortable. He feels how he feels and, even though he is a man, he is entitled to that.

Nobody gets to say that it is fine to do that to him except him.

It’s not the same, because breasts are given sexual connotations by society overall and pecs aren’t. So it would need to be meant as sexual to be a sexual assault (in the context of unwanted touching).

That being the reason men can just walk around topless and women in practice can’t, even though it’s not illegal.

However it’s still not acceptable to just go up and touch people’s pecs willy nilly I would say.

I mean “penis havers’s” pecs of course

Can’t speak to B and the B specifically. Can’t watch it as I get upset about the teacup

I think when talking about the US we can't comprehend threat. Guns can be carried by anyone and if you read the news, the fatal shootings over nothing, by both sexes, are shocking.

"Is there this ingrained problem in society where girls don't respect men's rights that I don't know about?"

Why use girls, then men in the sentence? It minimises it. As said, sexual harrasment of men is downplayed. There's less of it in everyday life, but on nights out I've seen behaviour from women which would get men arrested, or thrown out of pubs/clubs at the least.
No-one should be subjected to unwanted touching at work.

I thought he dealt with it very professionally. He gave her a firm "no" to her unacceptable behaviour.

I suspect the cast members (particularly "bad guys") get a lot of this. Costume characters usually have a "handler" and hopefully there's also security on standby to remove someone who oversteps quickly.

Also, comparing grabbing pecs with breasts and ranking the incidents is very much the sort of Whataboutery that is frowned upon when there's a thread about a woman being attacked and some people join in with "men get attacked too".

It is the same as it's unwanted sexual contact, but it's different because he's male and she's female and there's a huge power imbalance there.

Men are physically stronger and advantaged than women.

But what she did was wrong and no one should be touching any one without their consent.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

Can’t speak to B and the B specifically. Can’t watch it as I get upset about the teacup

Why the teacup, if you don't mind my asking? Because it's been chipped? If you watch to the end, he is restored to boy form and his head isn't maimed or mutilated at all.

Not everything is black and white. There are lots of things to consider, for example:

-She is much smaller than he is, so he wasn't physically unsafe or at risk of injury
-The structural power dynamic in society disadvantages women and advantages men, so "woman grabs man's ass" is not "just as bad" as "man grabs woman's ass". Neither is acceptable but at a "society" level they are not the same and it's sexist to pretend they are.
-HOWEVER - on a personal scale, people feel the way they feel, and he could have past abuse or just a really strong sense of personal space and aversion to being touched by strangers that makes it especially awful for him, personally. Anyone could. You could really fuck up someone's day or life by violating their personal space like that.
-He was at his place of work, so that reduces/affects the power he has in the situation (if his employer sided with the woman and claimed he embarrassed her or that he broke character, he could lose his job and livelihood).

If you went through hundreds of incident like this (male on female, female on male, same sex, different ages, same ages, whatever) and carefully examined every aspect involved and interviewed everyone involved and assigned points to rate how awful they were and how badly people were affected and put all the incidents on a graph you would find that some of the female on male assaults were "worse" than some of the male on female assaults but on a macro scale, you would find that female victims have it worse statistically because of the structural power dynamic, institutionalised sexism, and size/strength differences.

Yes it is the same.

The only thing that matters here is whether he was uncomfortable. He clearly was. So she was out of order for doing it.

When we start to get into a “but this is worse” type argument we take away from the key point in that nobody should be touch without their consent. To try to argue about which is worse is wrong because any unwanted physical contact is wrong. We need to keep that as the clear message for everyone.

The structural power dynamic in society disadvantages women and advantages men, so "woman grabs man's ass" is not "just as bad" as "man grabs woman's ass". Neither is acceptable but at a "society" level they are not the same and it's sexist to pretend they are.

I think it’s sexist to say that men shouldn’t feel as violated by unwanted sexual attention as women.

I know some men who would be triggered by this. You don't know what's happened in his past. I know a teenage boy who was made very uncomfortable by a girl touching his thigh.

@NotSoNewAndShiny

Groping anyone without their consent is sexual harassment. It's irrelevant whether it's the same/as bad as the other or not.

It's still part of a person's body.

Absolutely this. YABU.

@Sirzy

When we start to get into a “but this is worse” type argument we take away from the key point in that nobody should be touch without their consent. To try to argue about which is worse is wrong because any unwanted physical contact is wrong. We need to keep that as the clear message for everyone.

Put more succinctly that I could have!

I have ASD and anyone (even family or friends) touching me is horrible. It doesn't matter whether that touch is threatening or not. It has the same effect.

@sleepyhoglet

Just watched the video. Didn't see a problem. They are pecs not breasts. His chest and his character in the film is very flirtatious etc so she was having a pose with the character. She touched him for a matter of milli seconds and wasn't being sexual about it. I wonder was it more about social distancing than sexual touching. I felt sorry for her- it was made more awkward than it needed to be

Didnt see a problem? Someone being touched when that don’t want it and ask the person not to, isn’t a problem?

Blimey

@Sirzy

When we start to get into a “but this is worse” type argument we take away from the key point in that nobody should be touch without their consent. To try to argue about which is worse is wrong because any unwanted physical contact is wrong. We need to keep that as the clear message for everyone.

Absolutely this

@CounsellorTroi

The structural power dynamic in society disadvantages women and advantages men, so "woman grabs man's ass" is not "just as bad" as "man grabs woman's ass". Neither is acceptable but at a "society" level they are not the same and it's sexist to pretend they are.

I think it’s sexist to say that men shouldn’t feel as violated by unwanted sexual attention as women.

My very next point covers that, but I get that it was a lot of words so maybe you found it too hard to carry on reading.

“ Groping isn't wrong because it's threatening, it's wrong because it makes the person feel violated.”

This! This is why i harr people saying “you’re a man therefore stronger therefore it’s ok. It’s not fucking ok