Different to touch a mans pecs to a woman's breasts?

[imamearcat]

Did anyone see the thing where a woman touched 'Gastons' chest at Disney land?

I got into a bit of an argument on Facebook about it with people saying it was the same as a man touching someone's breasts. I just don't think it's the same at all. Not saying it's right, but not the same.

AIBU?

.. and either way it’s not on.
She’s an idiot.

There's a common theme on here about women's breasts being more sexualised then men's. That's no doubt true, certainly by men.

However, I would have to wonder how many women would want to touch a man's chest unless they find it sexually alluring in some way?

Groping isn't threatening in and of itself?

That's not true at all.

Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.

Surely that's obvious?

I can't understand this determination to draw equivalence.

He was at work and she had no right to touch him. If he patted her backside, which is probably the closest equivalent, then all hell would have broken loose.

This woman is totally out of order.

The idea that it's not seen as funny by esp men in the most common places it happens pubs clubs when women are felt up is very strange. And the idea that everyone goes omg etc is strange as well.

Women and girls are expected not to make a fuss/ laugh it off. IME.

And the dynamic is different. Rather than helping men - even though the vast majority on this thread have said they see what she did as totally out of order.

It seems to feel more like minimising sexual harrassment/assault against women and girls.

Plenty saying men and boys have it worse. And those saying hold on dynamics etc are being told they are apologists for sexual harrassment/assault.

Something can be wrong without having to draw an equivalence that minimises sex offences against women and girls.

@ANameChangeAgain

He was at work and she had no right to touch him. If he patted her backside, which is probably the closest equivalent, then all hell would have broken loose.

Nonsense.

Women get grabbed all the time. Esp when working in certain types of costume/ attire.

For girls, school uniform is a magnet for creeps.

I raised the issue of men touching boys/ men sexually but only one reply. That's a worry as is incredibly rarely even mentioned.

@NiceGerbil I don’t think anyone is minimising offences against women and girls. This is a thread about unwanted sexual contact by a woman on a man. Most have said it’s not acceptable and a few of us have mentioned our experiences.

@user1473878824

It’s unwanted contact with a sexual meaning. So yes, it’s the same. You don’t touch anyone like that without consent.

^^This. I dont think it is ok to touch another person like that even if they dont feel unsafe, feeling uncomfortable is enough.

Literally no one has said the woman’s behaviour is acceptable and there are lots of examples of women behaving in a grim and quite possibly illegal way towards men’s bodies. However, the question was is touching a woman’s breasts the same as touching a mans chest. Now lots of people are saying it is and in fact any unwanted touching on any part of the body should be treated exactly the same.

This is why I have a problem with that. Like many girls I was groped by a stranger. I was 14, walking with a friend in the middle along a busy road. A man ran up to me, grabbed my breasts hard and then ran off. I didn’t make a fuss, I was scared and didn’t want to draw any attention to myself and then I think we were just so relieved he had gone and not done anything else. This was in the80s, it didn’t occur to me to report it to the police. In any case I felt it was probably my fault anyway for having too big breasts and a slightly low cut top. So I think a lot about this incident still, still with a sense of shame. And I know now that the man who did it could well have been working up to more serious assaults, and I believe it should be a police matter. So I really would have hoped that things would be different now - after MeToo - that if anything similar happened to my daughter or her friends they would feel able to go to the police and in an ideal world the assailant would be caught and charged.

But, if we say that all inappropriate touching, on any part of the body, experienced by a man or woman in any place or context, should be treated in exactly the same way - then how could that happen? The police would simply be overwhelmed. How would they have the resources to catch such a man, if they would have to go out to a call for any unwanted physical contact, whether an over familiar stranger on a bus misguidedly touching someone’s arm, or an accidental brush up against someone in a shop or bar..there would simply be no way for them to prioritise.

So in this world it would be highly unlikely for anything to happen differently - no police, no reporting. Because it’s unacceptable to say that a man grabbing a woman’s sexual anatomy can actually be different to other forms of unwanted physical contact.

[quote imamearcat]@ABCeasyasdohrayme because there was obviously no threat to his safety, I think. I do think it was wrong of her but i don't feel he would be threatened in the same way a woman would feel having a random guy touch her boobs. [/quote]
If a man means no threat to my safety but touches any part of me without me wanting him to, that doesn't make it OK.
Doesn't make this OK either.

@Fradishes I’m not sure people are saying it’s exactly the same. Maybe some but the majority seem to say it’s different but also unacceptable

Just like a woman having her breasts touched is different to her arm stroked. Both unacceptable if not wanted, possibly both sexual in motive but yes, different.

I don’t think the equivalency means reporting both/all types in the same way. It means seeing both as unacceptable and not “just a laugh” or “fine because he’s bigger”

And by the way what happened to you was totally unacceptable and in no way your fault.

Just as when I had my genitals grabbed at school by a bunch of girls at 14

Or a couple of years ago while gigging.

Of course its the same, as its uninvited and unwanted touching. People should keep their hands to themselves. Granted, its probably less sexual in nature but neither should happen and neither are OK.

And (sorry) I do t think anyone is saying we have it worse. Absolutely we do not. Women have the impact of a sexual assault coupled with the fear and threat to their safety. We don’t (usually) have the latter. That doesn’t make the former funny or fine.

Something can be wrong without having to draw an equivalence that minimises sex offences against women and girls.

Drawing an equivalence is only minimising it if you personally see what happened to him as being a minor infringement though surely?

Plenty saying men and boys have it worse

I'm pretty sure that has not been the case at all on this thread. Just lots of people recognising that non consensual touching of a man by a women in a sexual manner is wrong.

@BillMasen

And (sorry) I do t think anyone is saying we have it worse. Absolutely we do not. Women have the impact of a sexual assault coupled with the fear and threat to their safety. We don’t (usually) have the latter. That doesn’t make the former funny or fine.

But it's the same. You just pointed out a counter example to prove that.

To what PP said happened to her.

And that's fine obv but then straight away saying it's not the same I don't get!

(Fradishes- it really hurts when they do it hard as well. Same with other stuff we're told to laugh off/ don't make a fuss. Eg hard slap or pinch to arse. I once had a man force my mouth open by shoving his finger hard into the hinges of my jaw a bit like when the vet gives a cat a tablet to keep their mouths open. Anyway he had a big old tonguey slobber in my mouth. My jaw was sore for days after that).

Nonsense.
Women get grabbed all the time. Esp when working in certain types of costume/ attire.
And if a video went viral of a woman having her arse grabbed by a friendly laughing bloke there's no way he wouldn't be ripped apart as a sexual predator abusing women and if he'd do that they're what would he do given the chance. Only a small proportion of people would think it's ok to touch a woman like that vs a large proportion thinking this guy should man up, enjoy it, asking for it etc

OP,

Why are you turning this into some kind of a competition?

No means no right?

No means consent hasn’t been given right?

No means stop, right?

Women have it worse than men when it comes to sexual harassment. They suffer from it more than men do.

But if you want the message to get across to men to stop doing this, then downplaying it when it does happen to a man is NOT the way to go.

Does it matter if it's the same or not? I wouldn't have got into that argument because it's irrelevant. It's not appropriate and no means no, anything else is just muddying the waters IMO.

@SleepingStandingUp

Nonsense. Women get grabbed all the time. Esp when working in certain types of costume/ attire. And if a video went viral of a woman having her arse grabbed by a friendly laughing bloke there's no way he wouldn't be ripped apart as a sexual predator abusing women and if he'd do that they're what would he do given the chance. Only a small proportion of people would think it's ok to touch a woman like that vs a large proportion thinking this guy should man up, enjoy it, asking for it etc

The large proportion have said it was out of line, including me.

I am bemused at how many posters insist that it is exactly the same. Sure, both scenarios are unwanted touching and are just as unacceptable. But different parts of the body are considered worse places than others to touch. Grabbing someone's genitals is surely worse than grabbing someone's hand, even though you shouldn't do either without permission.

I've been in the comparable situation of being a man groped by a female customer. How did I feel? Uncomfortable, revolted, trapped as I had to remain professional rather than "what the f* are you doing?"

But I know that my feelings were far less than what would be going through the mind of a female member of staff being harassed by a male customer. A female member of staff will have had daily harassment since the age of about ten, and have to take all sorts of precautions in her day to day life that would never cross my mind.

So grabbing any body part of a man or a woman without invitation is unacceptable. But some parts are worse.

I'd say that what she did would rank alongside a man grabbing a woman's thigh. It's not genitals, breasts, or buttocks, but it's bloody close.

It has been suggested that she was ejected from the park. There's not much hard evidence of that but in a just world she should have been.