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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Different to touch a mans pecs to a woman's breasts?

246 replies

imamearcat · 17/10/2021 23:56

Did anyone see the thing where a woman touched 'Gastons' chest at Disney land?

I got into a bit of an argument on Facebook about it with people saying it was the same as a man touching someone's breasts. I just don't think it's the same at all. Not saying it's right, but not the same.

AIBU?

OP posts:
WhiskyXray · 18/10/2021 10:10

Who the fuck would think this was ok? Especially in full view of children?

The actor dealt with it well, but he shouldn't have had to.

LolaSmiles · 18/10/2021 10:12

Breasts are more sexualised than men's pecs, however simple human decency is not to touch people who don't want it.

When someone says to stop, stop.

If people don't understand that then it's worrying and I'd question why anyone would be so invested in pushing the idea that anyone should have to tolerate unwanted contact. It's a bit creepy.

BillMasen · 18/10/2021 10:13

@Findwen

I am a man, I have no idea what it is like to have a boob grabbed since I don't have one.

I do have a mans chest though, when women have touched me that way other than in a doctors office it has always been for affection purposes - so it would certainly feel to me as a sex based advance... since that is the only circumstance woman have touched me in that way in that place on my body.

When I have been groped by women in my younger days, it is hard to know what to do about it. A women can tell the man to fuck off, push him away e.t.c. That is not so easy as man since:

  1. You are a man ! You are supposed to like it !
  2. Raising your voice at women is always bad.
  3. Pushing women is always bad.

So options are really limited to a persistent groper.

I AM NOT SAYING WOMEN HAVE IT EASIER am just saying pushing away sexual advances is not as easy as some here have suggested.

Perhaps think of it another way - if it is not inappropriate and sexual, you wouldn't mind if your best fried touched your male partner that way whenever they met up ?

This mirrors how I feel

I’ve been touched up and groped by women. It happened at school, it happened in clubs, and I play in a band and it still happens when I gig.

It’s laughed about by both men and women. We’re supposed to like it, find it flattering. If we push them off it’s us being aggressive.

It’s a small glimpse of life in the 70s for a woman I guess.

Fradishes · 18/10/2021 10:13

YADNBU - can’t believe I’m seeing the same video as other people who are saying it’s the same as the other way around! Not only is touching a mans chest different from touching a woman’s chest, look at them! He towers over her, he probably weighs at least twice as much. Saying it’s just the same as if he did it to her is kind of a scary attitude, in terms of women being free from sexual assault this will come back to bite us, honestly.

BillMasen · 18/10/2021 10:17

@Fradishes

YADNBU - can’t believe I’m seeing the same video as other people who are saying it’s the same as the other way around! Not only is touching a mans chest different from touching a woman’s chest, look at them! He towers over her, he probably weighs at least twice as much. Saying it’s just the same as if he did it to her is kind of a scary attitude, in terms of women being free from sexual assault this will come back to bite us, honestly.
I’m a short slim bloke. Is it ok for me to touch up women who are bigger than me?
TabithaTiger · 18/10/2021 10:18

It's not so much about the part of the body being touched, it's how it was done and the intent behind it. She touched him in a sexualised manner which caused him to feel uncomfortable. So it's wrong. The argument about whether it's better or worse than touching breasts is irrelevant.

Simonjt · 18/10/2021 10:22

She chose to sexually assault him in front of children (I very much hope she doesn’t have children herself) and attempted to assault him twice more. I doubt its the first time she felt someone elses body was hers to assault.

If shes happy to stand in front of a crowd laughing while she sexually assaults someone she should be equally happy about someone laughing and grabbing her. I bet when her body is involved she believes no one should be able to touch it.

A few clubs in London have had to ban hen parties as some were assaulting patrons, its a shame as it ruins the experience for hen parties that didn’t sexually assault.

Fradishes · 18/10/2021 10:26

@BillMasen men who are equal or smaller in height are still stronger than women due to their physiology. Women are also socially conditioned to be more compliant and more afraid so more likely to freeze rather than act assertively and speak out strongly as the man in the video does. Men commit an overwhelming number more serious sexual offences against women than the other way around. So no, it would not be ok.

OneTC · 18/10/2021 10:27

Saying it’s just the same as if he did it to her is kind of a scary attitude,

Ranking assault is also pretty weird

Fradishes · 18/10/2021 10:28

Aldo, it’s exactly this kind of ‘disingenuous’ question - ‘well she’s my equal so is it ok?’ that I mean about it coming back to bite women when we say it’s just the same.

Fradishes · 18/10/2021 10:35

@OneTC is it? Seems fairly normal to me in a civilised society. We have a legal system that distinguishes between GBH and ABH for example. And I would say hitting a small child is worse than hitting an adult with the same force. But you are free to have your opinion of course.

Lulu2021 · 18/10/2021 10:41

@Fradishes

Aldo, it’s exactly this kind of ‘disingenuous’ question - ‘well she’s my equal so is it ok?’ that I mean about it coming back to bite women when we say it’s just the same.

How can it come back to bite us when we are saying neither is ok? Not, one is worse than the other. Just that it's not ok to sexually touch another person regardless of your or their sex. That covers all bases. All of it is wrong.

WorraLiberty · 18/10/2021 10:41

[quote Fradishes]@OneTC is it? Seems fairly normal to me in a civilised society. We have a legal system that distinguishes between GBH and ABH for example. And I would say hitting a small child is worse than hitting an adult with the same force. But you are free to have your opinion of course.[/quote]
In the context of this particular thread and the video being discussed, it's both weird and distasteful imo.

SickAndTiredAgain · 18/10/2021 10:46

I think that in society we very clearly do not treat a man’s chest in the same way as a woman’s. A topless man in the park, or at the beach, or on tv (in a drama or whatever) is seen as very different to a topless woman. Even clothed, you might see a picture of a couple where she’s posing with her hand on his chest, but you wouldn’t see similar picture with his hand on her breast. So they clearly aren’t the same.
But I don’t think that distinction matters in an situation where someone is being touched and they don’t want to be. In that situation, the relevant part is that someone is being touched without their consent.

Fradishes · 18/10/2021 10:46

@Lulu2021 the op is very clear: ‘ people saying it was the same as a man touching someone's breasts. I just don't think it's the same at all. Not saying it's right, but not the same. AIBU?’

Fradishes · 18/10/2021 10:49

Well I do have a lot of respect for you @WorraLiberty based on your posts so I will take that, but I feel the thread was a bit one sided telling the OP she is BU. Perhaps it came across wrong I didn’t post much.

Fradishes · 18/10/2021 10:50

I mean I don’t post much, not didnt. So perhaps not very eloquent when I do.

sleepyhoglet · 18/10/2021 10:51

Just watched the video. Didn't see a problem. They are pecs not breasts. His chest and his character in the film is very flirtatious etc so she was having a pose with the character. She touched him for a matter of milli seconds and wasn't being sexual about it. I wonder was it more about social distancing than sexual touching. I felt sorry for her- it was made more awkward than it needed to be

WithANameLikeDaniCalifornia · 18/10/2021 10:52

@imamearcat

I don't think my kids would be traumatised by viewing the experience.

Is there this ingrained problem in society where girls don't respect men's rights that I don't know about?

Do you have a compulsive need to make everything about yourself? This particular story is about a man who was touched inappropriately without his consent.
Lulu2021 · 18/10/2021 10:52

[quote Fradishes]@Lulu2021 the op is very clear: ‘ people saying it was the same as a man touching someone's breasts. I just don't think it's the same at all. Not saying it's right, but not the same. AIBU?’[/quote]

My point is. I don't think comparison or trying to find equivalence is helpful. My response would be "it's all sexual assault and it's all wrong", rather than be pulled into a debate about which is worse.

Simonjt · 18/10/2021 10:54

@sleepyhoglet

Just watched the video. Didn't see a problem. They are pecs not breasts. His chest and his character in the film is very flirtatious etc so she was having a pose with the character. She touched him for a matter of milli seconds and wasn't being sexual about it. I wonder was it more about social distancing than sexual touching. I felt sorry for her- it was made more awkward than it needed to be
Ah, so it would be okay for gay men to grab womens breasts then, and even more acceptable if their job requires them to dress as a flirty character. Got it.
todaysdilemma · 18/10/2021 10:57

The body part does not matter if someone has been groped without consent.

Groped being the operative word here, and what she did.

Sexualised touching of any part without consent is wrong. Especially if it's done with a leer like this woman did.

Fixating on boobs v pecs is stupid. If a man's bicep is groped, that is as wrong as a woman's arse being grabbed. It is sexualised groping.

Groping isn't wrong because it's threatening, it's wrong because it makes the person feel violated. If a small puny teenage boy groped you, you know you'd easily be able to take him on, so not threatening. But you would feel violated. Would that feel less threatening than a large man grabbing your arm? Body part IS irrelevant, intention and purpose is.

Hope this clarifies why what this women did was non consensual, violating and sexualised groping. She could have done it to his back and it would still be as bad as me getting my boobs grabbed as a joke by a frat boy.

OneTC · 18/10/2021 10:59

Just watched the video. Didn't see a problem. They are pecs not breasts. His chest and his character in the film is very flirtatious etc so she was having a pose with the character.

He was practically begging for it Hmm

Lulu2021 · 18/10/2021 10:59

*Fixating on boobs v pecs is stupid. If a man's bicep is groped, that is as wrong as a woman's arse being grabbed. It is sexualised groping.

Groping isn't wrong because it's threatening, it's wrong because it makes the person feel violated.*

One hundred times this. Spot on.

Lulu2021 · 18/10/2021 11:00

Bold fail. @todaysdilemma basically agreeing entirely with your post. Well said.