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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Different to touch a mans pecs to a woman's breasts?

246 replies

imamearcat · 17/10/2021 23:56

Did anyone see the thing where a woman touched 'Gastons' chest at Disney land?

I got into a bit of an argument on Facebook about it with people saying it was the same as a man touching someone's breasts. I just don't think it's the same at all. Not saying it's right, but not the same.

AIBU?

OP posts:
ABCeasyasdohrayme · 18/10/2021 00:33

@imamearcat

I don't think my kids would be traumatised by viewing the experience.

Is there this ingrained problem in society where girls don't respect men's rights that I don't know about?

You've been arguing on FB, then started a thread on here about this now, and you're working really hard to minimise this.

Is there a particular reason that you want to categorise sexual harassment in order of highest to lowest importance?

imamearcat · 18/10/2021 00:33

I think she thought he was joking. But that's probably the problem?

OP posts:
maddening · 18/10/2021 00:33

But he did not put up with her doing it, he immediately told her to do one and she was ejected from Disney land, rightly obviously, no one is suggesting he should put up with it.

imamearcat · 18/10/2021 00:34

@ABCeasyasdohrayme just trying to understand

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 18/10/2021 00:35

@imamearcat

It's not the same though. Back to my OP, I never said it was ok
It's the same in the sense that he may have felt a threat to his safety.

It's the same in the sense she was trying to belittle him in public.

It's the same in the sense it was totally inappropriate.

It's the same in the sense that no means no.

It's the same in so many ways that I don't understand your argument? It was an appalling thing to do to a stranger just doing their job, and that's all there is to it really.

godmum56 · 18/10/2021 00:36

[quote imamearcat]@ABCeasyasdohrayme just trying to understand [/quote]
no, I don't think you are "trying to understand"

ABCeasyasdohrayme · 18/10/2021 00:39

[quote imamearcat]@ABCeasyasdohrayme just trying to understand [/quote]
What's to understand? She was touching him, he didn't want her to.

It doesn't matter if you see him as worthy of being a victim, or you think other victims have it worse.

You shouldn't be trying to minimise it because you don't believe it's that bad.

If a woman gets her bum groped on the bus would you argue online that it isn't as bad as if she had her boobs groped, or would you accept she is a victim and feels shit about it?

imamearcat · 18/10/2021 00:42

So you feel that it would be just the same if some random guy grabbed a boob of a princess? I just don't. I'm sorry I just don't.

It would be more sexual and more threatening.

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 18/10/2021 00:43

You shouldn't be trying to minimise it because you don't believe it's that bad.

If a woman gets her bum groped on the bus would you argue online that it isn't as bad as if she had her boobs groped, or would you accept she is a victim and feels shit about it?

This ^^

And you also shouldn't be trying to minimise it just because you think your kids wouldn't be traumatised by it.

That's pretty shit to be honest.

imamearcat · 18/10/2021 00:45

I do get what you are saying

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 18/10/2021 00:46

@imamearcat

So you feel that it would be just the same if some random guy grabbed a boob of a princess? I just don't. I'm sorry I just don't.

It would be more sexual and more threatening.

What she did was sexual otherwise she would've patted him on the head.

She then tried to grope him another 2 times after being told to stop ffs.

And you don't get to decide what's more threatening when people work day in and day out with the public. You should know after recent events just how unpredictable and terrifying working with the public can be.

Namenic · 18/10/2021 00:50

I don’t think the point of it is what is worse. Maybe to that person it is worse, because lots of people do it to him or make fun of him or are mean. Maybe he feels humiliated.

You’re asking the wrong question if you’re asking what is worse. Is it worse if a woman hits a man or a man a woman? No one should be hitting anyone. What if the woman was a ufc fighter and the man was vulnerable due to ill health? What if he got punched in an area with a surgical wound?

imamearcat · 18/10/2021 00:51

Yes I think I understand now. Honestly not trying to be difficult.

Even if it is different it doesn't mater. We all need to respect each other, especially for women to be respected.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 18/10/2021 00:54

No of course it's not the same.

Physically they are very different.
Socially they are very different.

Not RTFT.

The fact that in this country-

Men with shirt off / woman with no top on... No way the same.
Strong pecs is neutral or envied by men. Big breasts is... Complicated. As you grow up. Can often be. Embarrassing. Uncomfortable. What defines you usually to men but women as well. Expensive to tether so they aren't somehow seen as rather obscene. Give you back problems. A leering/ commenting magnet for certain men and boys. A matter for poking fun at/ jokes. And so much more...

MobyDicksTinyCanoe · 18/10/2021 00:55

There does seem to be an attitude of women thinking they can grope men and it's expected to be laughed off..... It's happened to my dp a few times. Including a woman from a hen party who grabbed his cock and balls when he bent down to tie his laces, he then had a bunch of men square up to him because he'd quite rightly told them to piss off (( I was there with our dc. This wasnt some rowdy night out, we were walking home from a day out and they were heading to the train station))

Yes I know women are less of a threat but I do think attitudes need to change and think if men did report these incidents the statistics would be pretty surprising.

WorraLiberty · 18/10/2021 00:56

@imamearcat

Yes I think I understand now. Honestly not trying to be difficult.

Even if it is different it doesn't mater. We all need to respect each other, especially for women to be respected.

You've almost got it.

Especially for everyone to be respected.

No-one should be making anyone else feel scared, humiliated or even just uncomfortable for their own entertainment.

WorraLiberty · 18/10/2021 00:58

@NiceGerbil it's a small thread with very few posts on it.

You'd do well to RTFT and watch the 2 minute video.

ChristieMalry · 18/10/2021 00:59

The bloke doing the tiktok comment after is very earnest. Is this a known common problem? I never heard about Disney characters and the issues they face at work previously but the tiktok man seems keen to bring it to our attention.

WorraLiberty · 18/10/2021 01:00

@ChristieMalry

The bloke doing the tiktok comment after is very earnest. Is this a known common problem? I never heard about Disney characters and the issues they face at work previously but the tiktok man seems keen to bring it to our attention.
I have no idea if it's a 'known problem' but I'm not sure what that has to do with it?

It was clearly a problem for the man in the video.

ABCeasyasdohrayme · 18/10/2021 01:00

@imamearcat

So you feel that it would be just the same if some random guy grabbed a boob of a princess? I just don't. I'm sorry I just don't.

It would be more sexual and more threatening.

If your first thought when watching a video if someone being sexually harassed and repeatedly touched despite saying no is "well its not as bad XY or Z" then that's something you really do need to work on and understand in yourself. It's not a normal reaction.
NiceGerbil · 18/10/2021 01:01

@Namenic

I don’t think the point of it is what is worse. Maybe to that person it is worse, because lots of people do it to him or make fun of him or are mean. Maybe he feels humiliated.

You’re asking the wrong question if you’re asking what is worse. Is it worse if a woman hits a man or a man a woman? No one should be hitting anyone. What if the woman was a ufc fighter and the man was vulnerable due to ill health? What if he got punched in an area with a surgical wound?

Um ..

And in real life, generally.

What if she's seriously injured / has a brain injury that goes unnoticed (research about this a lot recently) or is killed.

Vs

He catches her arm/ holds her off because he's taller and stronger/ gets hit and result is pain or injury which is minor.

Yes both are wrong. However. Drawing this equivalence, which I've seen on here a few times recently. Disregards some pretty important stuff.

That men are statistically way more violent than women.
That men are generally bigger stronger than women.
That men kill seriously injure way more men and women, than women do either sex.

Morally both are wrong.
Realistically. It's just not the same both ways around.

I've been punched in the face by a man. He came out of a pub, walked up to me at the bus stop and punched me hard. I went flying literally through the air.

Any guesses as to what the result would have been the other way around?

imamearcat · 18/10/2021 01:01

Yes @ABCeasyasdohrayme I probably 'need help'Hmm

OP posts:
NotSoNewAndShiny · 18/10/2021 01:01

Especially for everyone to be respected.

I was going to say this.

We all need to respect each other. Full stop.

There's no 'especially' there. No special treatment, just equal treatment.

Men respect women.
Women respect men.
Men respect men.
Women respect women.

We all have to play our parts.

ChristieMalry · 18/10/2021 01:03

I'm asking because the tiktok man is very vehement and he's giving us all instructions as if it's a public information/re education film. It's just not something that's crossed my radar previously, harassment at Disney character work.

SpidersAreShitheads · 18/10/2021 01:04

If a strange man insisted on putting his arm around one of the Disney princesses and kept trying to do it after she told him to stop, would it be OK?

I think that's sort of equivalent to what's gone on here. Not sexual but invasive, and crossing personal boundaries.

No, a man's pecs aren't anywhere near as sexual as a woman's breasts - but do you believe that body autonomy only counts when it comes to areas which are considered to be sexual?

If a customer at work kept stroking your upper arm even after you had told him to stop, would that be OK? Or should you have the ability to say "I don't like that, please stop"?

I mean, obviously the answer is that you should be able to tell them to stop touching you. No part of anyone's body is there for another person to touch however they want. Your body, your decision.

Playing devil's advocate.........I've seen this Gaston in other videos and he plays the role brilliantly - he really hams it up, and talks about his amazing pecs and chest hair and what a manly man he is (ie/the Gaston character perfectly!). Trying to be generous, MAYBE the woman had seen this larking around and thought Gaston would be OK if she placed her hand on his pecs (there is a video where he invites another woman to touch his pecs). But when he tells her to stop, and she carried on, then that's where it becomes deeply problematic. I'd have been utterly mortified to have misinterpreted something so badly and wouldn't be able to run away fast enough. And to be fair, this is a very generous possible explanation based on viewing the shortened version of the video. I don't really think you should be touching another person, even when they're playing a character, unless you're explicitly invited to. I'm just trying to think of a possible alternative explanation.

Body autonomy matters. I reinforce to my DC that they don't have to be hugged, or be touched on any part of their body at all if they prefer not to be.