Different to touch a mans pecs to a woman's breasts?

[imamearcat]

Did anyone see the thing where a woman touched 'Gastons' chest at Disney land?

I got into a bit of an argument on Facebook about it with people saying it was the same as a man touching someone's breasts. I just don't think it's the same at all. Not saying it's right, but not the same.

AIBU?

Hello Double standards

I think the "not the same" thing falls in the same category as "bereavement competing'....you know....my loss is worse than your loss. loss is loss and physical harassment/innappropriate touching shouldn't be measured or compared by body part.

Nicegerbil - this perpetuates the idea that men can’t be victims as well. I’m not saying what is more or less common. I’m just saying the specifics are important in each case.

Male victims can be dismissed, laughed at (for not being tough enough/beaten up by a girl etc). So unsurprisingly I suspect many don’t report. In a civilised society, we should not tolerate people pushing these boundaries.

Women shouldn’t assume that just because a man has a tight top or topless that he wants to be touched, just as men should not.

It's a big thing at Disney.
I'm assuming this has come about because there's been lots of tiktok videos recently (well about a year ago) of people talking about their experiences of being characters at disney.
It turns out with a costume on that people stop treating them as actual people, and leary comments, and inappropriate touching is weirdly common.
This report is based on the same guy doing it multiple times which was reported and eventually got banned

www.cinemablend.com/news/2487514/disney-world-tourists-need-to-stop-groping-characters-employees-report

Of course it’s not the same. Saying it’s not the same is not saying it’s acceptable.

@WorraLiberty

I agree *@NotSoNewAndShiny*.

He acted very professionally considering she tried to touch him twice more after he told her to leave.

I've just watched the video and I agree. She was completely inappropriate and persistent and he was very professional. In front of children as well just trying to do his job.

Unwanted touching of someone in a suggestive manner is wrong full stop. But someone who is in public doing a job playing a Disney character in front of children. She's so far out of order.

@imamearcat

So you feel that it would be just the same if some random guy grabbed a boob of a princess? I just don't. I'm sorry I just don't.

It would be more sexual and more threatening.

Still doesn't make it ok though op. What is hard to understand?

And no OP I don't think it's "different" at all. I think if you touch a man or woman on a part of their body in public in the suggestive way shown on this video without their consent, then you are in the wrong.

@maddening

I think it is the same as touching any other part of a woman, but breasts are, rightly or wrongfully, have a very sexual aspect to them, so touching breasts would be more similar to running your hand up a.mans inside leg. Touching a man's clothed chest, whilst wrong if it is unwanted contact is more like putting a hand on a woman's back or waist, still overly intimate.

This

[quote imamearcat]@ABCeasyasdohrayme because there was obviously no threat to his safety, I think. I do think it was wrong of her but i don't feel he would be threatened in the same way a woman would feel having a random guy touch her boobs. [/quote]
But if she touched his penis there would be no threat either because the man could subdue the woman (I assume that's what you meant by no threat). However it's obviously totally unacceptable to do that. Unwanted touching by anyone is wrong, no matter what sexes are involved.

YABU.

‘@ABCeasyasdohrayme because there was obviously no threat to his safety’

It’s a clear threat to your safety when someone refuses to stop touching you sexually after you’ve said no, or even without consent in the place. The fact she isn’t strong enough to endanger his life isn’t the point, he was assaulted.

Yeah it's the same. Not because breasts and pecs are all the same after all sometimes someone familiar might lay ha hand on a man's chest laughing at a joke or such and that's socially acceptable in a public space.

The thing that makes it the sake is that she was sexualising him. It was to take a picture where she was touching him up. I've taken pictures with famous people and I and they have kept hands to ourselves because that's how you behave with a stranger.

Grabbing someone in a sexual way in public isn't ok, she obviously thought it was the funniest thing but then some women use it all being a big joke to "pretend" to be sexually aggressive

It’s not exactly the same but it’s hardly worth arguing about and could be seen by others as minimising/deflecting from the issue.

Seeing the video I think it’s exactly the same as a man touching a woman’s breasts.

It’s unwanted sexual touching and sexual harassment in the workplace. If women want men to not objectify them it has to work the other way round too. She was objectifying him for a cheap thrill. He reacted very professionally. Well done to him.

@Lulu2021

And no OP I don't think it's "different" at all. I think if you touch a man or woman on a part of their body in public in the suggestive way shown on this video without their consent, then you are in the wrong.

I don’t agree with this. Someone could stroke my arm or back in a suggestive way and it would really creep me out and I’d back away but that would be it. If someone grabbed my boob I’d report it immediately. There is a difference.

Both are unwanted contact. Both are unacceptable. I don’t think the equivalence is needed though as it’s derailing the core problem - don’t touch people without their consent.

@Namenic

Nicegerbil - this perpetuates the idea that men can’t be victims as well. I’m not saying what is more or less common. I’m just saying the specifics are important in each case.

Male victims can be dismissed, laughed at (for not being tough enough/beaten up by a girl etc). So unsurprisingly I suspect many don’t report. In a civilised society, we should not tolerate people pushing these boundaries.

Women shouldn’t assume that just because a man has a tight top or topless that he wants to be touched, just as men should not.

Also perpetuates the notion that there is no such thing as unwanted sexual attention from women as far as men are concerned, that they are always “up for it”.

I saw that video. It’s not the same but any kind of unwanted touching is wrong. She just went in and groped his body and laughed it off, there’s no other way of putting it. It doesn’t have to be the same to be just as wrong.

YABU

I agree that breasts are definitely more sexualised that men’s chests (they’re obviously not treated the same by society as men are allowed to walk around shirtless and women aren’t)- but I think having someone touch you sexually against your will is just as upsetting whether you’re male or female and this context isn’t the time to be saying that they’re different.

I don’t get why some people think they’re entitled to touch service workers anyway, no matter what service they’re providing. The only two times I was grabbed as a waitress, both times it was a woman who grabbed me, both times they thought it was reasonable behaviour but it made me uncomfortable. My co-worker in that job, a guy, once had a woman grab him by the arm and start touching his bicep and trying to roll up his sleeve, saying she wanted to see his tattoo more clearly. It was gross and creepy.

YABU. When someone has been touched inappropriately, it’s not reasonable to go “well it’s not as bad as…”

I am a man, I have no idea what it is like to have a boob grabbed since I don't have one.

I do have a mans chest though, when women have touched me that way other than in a doctors office it has always been for affection purposes - so it would certainly feel to me as a sex based advance... since that is the only circumstance woman have touched me in that way in that place on my body.

When I have been groped by women in my younger days, it is hard to know what to do about it. A women can tell the man to fuck off, push him away e.t.c. That is not so easy as man since:

1. You are a man ! You are supposed to like it !
2. Raising your voice at women is always bad.
3. Pushing women is always bad.

So options are really limited to a persistent groper.

I AM NOT SAYING WOMEN HAVE IT EASIER am just saying pushing away sexual advances is not as easy as some here have suggested.

Perhaps think of it another way - if it is not inappropriate and sexual, you wouldn't mind if your best fried touched your male partner that way whenever they met up ?

@imamearcat

So you feel that it would be just the same if some random guy grabbed a boob of a princess? I just don't. I'm sorry I just don't.

It would be more sexual and more threatening.

I would imagine that if a princess’s chest had been groped the crowd of onlookers wouldn’t have stood by and allowed him to continue.

Whether he felt threatened or not is irrelevant. She was completely out of line.

I simply can’t imagine a situation where I would ever feel the need to touch the chest of a man who isn’t my partner. As an absolute minimum it’s overfamiliar and inappropriate. Do you think you could see yourself touching a random man’s chest in normal, day to day life? If not then you have your answer.

Yanbu. When a man sexually assaults a woman her instincts respond to the fact that she isn’t strong enough to stop him and the man is physically capable of beating her up / raping her / getting her pregnant and changing her life forever.

When a woman sexually assaults a man, he is physically capable of stopping her and there is no threat of rape / pregnancy.

It is not the same thing.

@Skysblue

Yanbu. When a man sexually assaults a woman her instincts respond to the fact that she isn’t strong enough to stop him and the man is physically capable of beating her up / raping her / getting her pregnant and changing her life forever.

When a woman sexually assaults a man, he is physically capable of stopping her and there is no threat of rape / pregnancy.

It is not the same thing.

A man might not be physically harmed or made pregnant by sexual assault. But depending on his history he might be emotionally harmed by sexual assault.

I simply can’t imagine a situation where I would ever feel the need to touch the chest of a man who isn’t my partner. As an absolute minimum it’s overfamiliar and inappropriate. Do you think you could see yourself touching a random man’s chest in normal, day to day life? If not then you have your answer.

Agreed.