Different to touch a mans pecs to a woman's breasts?

[imamearcat]

Did anyone see the thing where a woman touched 'Gastons' chest at Disney land?

I got into a bit of an argument on Facebook about it with people saying it was the same as a man touching someone's breasts. I just don't think it's the same at all. Not saying it's right, but not the same.

AIBU?

Is the tiktok man a Disney character as well? I haven't watched many Disney films over the past few years.

@NiceGerbil your personal story doesn't change the fact that harassment can be just as terrifying for some men as it can be for some women.

For example, I have 3 sons.

2 would've handled this situation ok (probably) but 1 wouldn't have handled it at all well.

Having a penis or a vagina doesn't automatically mean anything when a stranger approaches you, tries to touch you and belittles you for their own entertainment.

@iamamearcat no kind of touching is appropriate without concent doesn't matter if its a man or a woman. it scares me when i hear of people who normalise such behaviour whether it be a joke or not.

No I don't think it is the same. I do think touching anyone anywhere without their consent and especially once they have said no/asked you not to is unacceptable though.

Even if it is different it doesn't mater. We all need to respect each other, especially for women to be respected.

You've almost got it.

Especially for everyone to be respected.

Sorry my last post meant I agreed with the bolded part.

@ChristieMalry

I'm asking because the tiktok man is very vehement and he's giving us all instructions as if it's a public information/re education film. It's just not something that's crossed my radar previously, harassment at Disney character work.

Well harassment at work is what we should be taking away from that.

Not harassment at Disney character work, harassment at Sainsburys work, harassment at office work etc.

Just harassment at work. Although having said that, people who work with the public are obviously more open to being harassed by random strangers.

That's fair

Ok. Is this new information?

He's very cross isn't he.

@ChristieMalry

Ok. Is this new information?

He's very cross isn't he.

Should he not be?

I dunno. Is it his brother or something? It happened five years ago! It's a long time to be cross when making an uncontentious point.

*ChristieMalry. doesn't change my comment up thread but it does seem strange to still be angry about something that happened 5 years ago. i thought we were talking about something much more recent

Oh I see the misunderstanding with me saying 'he'. I meant the one doing the tiktok. Ofc I'd expect Disney bloke to be cross at the time but tiktok bloke who may or may not be also a Disney character is cross five years later which I find surprising and I'm also surprised that he's adopting an attitude that this information about how to behave is new to us.

No @adam7485 he says in the video that the characters aren't working rn because of Covid. He'll need to do another angry video when they do go back to work so that we all know not to stroke them or whatever.

I think it’s up to the man to decide if it feels overly intimate or sexual. Some men may well feel like that about their chests.

I think it is the same as touching any other part of a woman, but breasts are, rightly or wrongfully, have a very sexual aspect to them, so touching breasts would be more similar to running your hand up a.mans inside leg.

Anyway no means no. It was clearly unwanted touching. The fact that in our culture it’s more acceptable for men to have their tops off in public doesn’t make it less inappropriate to touch someone uninvited in a sexual manner.

Why did she touch his chest and not his arm or back?

Having said all that- and just watching the video.

She was bang out of order. That's waaayyy out of line. And he said go and she kept at it!

He handled it as would most women in that situation getting boobs grabbed.

Who do these people think they are?

There is no need to draw equivalence between women being sexually harrassed though.

Both are out of order. Full stop.

To draw direct equivalence means ignoring loads of stuff. Around dynamics, social attitudes, frequency, power and just so much.

Fact is loads of women and older girls have had boobs touched / grabbed. That pushing together and plunging head in thing that was seemingly super funny a fair few years ago.

Increasingly (as per the hitting comment above) it seems fairly common at the moment to draw direct equivalence when things can and should be condemned without ignoring some massive stuff.

@adam7485

@iamamearcat no kind of touching is appropriate without concent doesn't matter if its a man or a woman. it scares me when i hear of people who normalise such behaviour whether it be a joke or not.

Do men and boys feel the same being touched like that by a woman, as they would a man bigger than them who signalled in some way it was sexually motivated?

[quote WorraLiberty]@NiceGerbil your personal story doesn't change the fact that harassment can be just as terrifying for some men as it can be for some women.

For example, I have 3 sons.

2 would've handled this situation ok (probably) but 1 wouldn't have handled it at all well.

Having a penis or a vagina doesn't automatically mean anything when a stranger approaches you, tries to touch you and belittles you for their own entertainment.[/quote]
I have a zillion personal stories though! And so do loads of women and girls.

What she did was wrong and shitty. He has the video so can report if he wishes. Not sure of laws there but imagine she could be done for something.

What I'm saying is that drawing a direct equivalence to men and boys doing stuff to women and girls is unnecessary.

The incident is bad on its own merits.

To say it's the same as unwanted male sexual behaviour to women and girls just ignores a host of major differences though. There is no need to do that.

Playing devil's advocate.........I've seen this Gaston in other videos and he plays the role brilliantly - he really hams it up, and talks about his amazing pecs and chest hair and what a manly man he is (ie/the Gaston character perfectly!). Trying to be generous, MAYBE the woman had seen this larking around and thought Gaston would be OK if she placed her hand on his pecs (there is a video where he invites another woman to touch his pecs). But when he tells her to stop, and she carried on, then that's where it becomes deeply problematic. I'd have been utterly mortified to have misinterpreted something so badly and wouldn't be able to run away fast enough.

I agree with this, having women swoon all over his big manly muscles is literally what the character is all about. She definitely shouldn't have gone back for a second go, but might've thought he was joking at first - it's quite the overreaction to her touching his thick pieces of foam chest. Maybe she said something that upset him too, but if it's just what we see in the video I don't think comparisons with men sexually harassing the princesses are fair. She was annoying/inappropriate yes, but she's hardly the molester the internet has painted her as

She looks like a Disney character too as it goes. Is she?

Agree that's not his actual chest.

tbh i can't believe in this day and age we still seem to carry this belief that a man can't be sexually harassed by a woman. i thought such attitudes went out with the arc. of course he can. the same as a woman can be physicly abusive towards her partner. its a mindset that really needs to change.

Adam- I'm not getting that vibe from this thread at all.

Vast majority say yes they can. Women can be horrible, violent etc. Obviously.

The thing I don't see mentioned.. at all I don't think.
Is men and boys being sexually harrassed by men.

Any thoughts on that? Do you think that's even more hidden away?

She was wrong to touch him when he told her not to, but it's silly to pretend that a man's pecs are the same as a woman's breasts. In our culture, breasts are sexualised to an extent that a man's chest never is, and that makes a difference. A man grabbing a woman's breasts is comparable to a woman grabbing a man's crotch, imo.

@*NiceGerbil. i don't think its as hidden away now as it used to be but we still have a long way to go moving forward with issues such as this. wasn't talking so much about this thread just talking about the attitude of some people in general

I'm pleased that male on male inappropriate/ illegal conduct is being discussed more. I do think it's currently pretty much not mentioned.

I think that things like a schoolboy being touched by a man on the bus for example. They may well just not know what it is, really understand the sexual element etc. Girls feel very confused and was it their fault and don't make a fuss etc as it is. And that kind of behaviour is much more talked about in general. Yes it's invariably minimised if they do tell someone. I think that with boys it might be seen more seriously? But it seems totally... Just never talked about.

The attitude in general when men touch women in eg a pub or club is. From men hilarious. From women. One of those things don't make a fuss.

Generally we just. Put up with it. If say anything to him IME you get zero backup and sometimes an aggressive bloke in your face.

I mean the whole thing is shit whichever way round etc.