You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

@DioneTheDiabolist

What does the end product look like and what is the firts step towards it?

The end product looks like whole load of people going about their daily lives in relative peace. No doubt terrorism will continue to exist as will groups with a vested interest in keeping the conflict going. But these groups will no longer have the power they once had.

The first step is to stop the land grabs. All they do is increase tension.

Sorry @DioneTheDiabolist That's too simplistic. If that was a possible solution then Arafat, Peres and Shimon would have had it permanently sorted in the 90s.

But it would be nice to think that it could be possible within my lifetime!

[Cherrycee]

I'm referring to the USA samG76, I imagine most people would get that.

[Londonmummy66]

I am a similar age to Samphire and also studied this at O level. My teacher was in Jordan at the time of the 6 day war which she said she spent glued to the BBC world service. Her DH had worked all over the middle East and her opinion was that this would be far harder to resolve than the seemingly insoluble Irish Question.

I have several Jewish friends and ex colleagues I follow on social media and they are all appalled about the deaths of the Palestinian children yesterday - surely no one is going to accuse them of anti-semitism?

[FromHereToModernity]

There are truth & reconciliation models.

[DeepThinkingGirl]

Bells3032

Please quit the whataboutary.

You are being offensive to dismiss that currently there are humans feeling unsafe for themselves and children in houses of worship on their holy month.

Let’s talk about now and not deflect to politics or georgraphy. I disagree with everything you mentioned as someone of Palestinian heritage who lived amongst Palestinian refugees elsewhere and who has Jewish friends from Arab descent.

Let’s agree to disagree on these issues and focus on the fact there is no justification to attacking innocent civilians. And that they need support on a human level.


It’s fine, you can support your enemy on a human level. People are people, you gotta have compassion for kids whether they’re Palestinian or not.

[DrSbaitso]

@LolaSmiles

PickAChew wow, is that a reference to Jews control the media? Jesus
Alternatively it's a reference to the fact that those with money and influence are able to influence the media, which is hardly a controversial statement unless you genuinely want to claim that those with money and influence have zero influence on media coverage and political decisions.
Why should a discussion about the coverage of the Israel Palestine situation be immune from this consideration?

Yet again discussing this topic gets turned into people suggesting posters are being antisemitic

That's because the idea that Jews are wealthy and influential and control everything is as old as the hills, as are disingenuous denials of expressions of it, like this one.

[Lauren15]

@justasecond

Bloody ridiculous. If we are not allowed to discuss Israel then just say it openly.

@justasecond admitting the Israeli situation can’t be discussed doesn’t make that ok.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

@FromHereToModernity

There are truth & reconciliation models.

Have any of them actually worked anywhere?

Genuinely interested...

[andyoldlabour]

A list of UN resolutions on Israel. The main reason why no sanctions have ever been placed on Israel, is the US using its power of veto in the UN to block sanctions. This simple action means that Israel can totally ignore all of the UN resolutions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

[PickAChew]

[quote Bells3032]@PickAChew wow, is that a reference to Jews control the media? Jesus[/quote]
No, it's a reference to mnhq appearing to be unusually trigger happy for a topic that isn't discussing an individual.

[Bells3032]

@DioneTheDiabolist agreed. The building of settlements has to stop. Even if Israel disagrees with them being illegal they cannot deny it is "goady" as MN would say.

However, people just living peacefully makes this sound so simple when it isn't. you have generations of hurt, generations brought up to see each other as the enemy. Both have done terrible things to each other and neither have it in their power to forgive each other - even if they wanted to. Every time they have come close an individual has taken it upon themselves to destroy that peace. Then the other side retaliates. And that's it.

What would you say would be the way forward for peace? I wouldn't want to be a Palestinian with constant raids, bombs, soldiers and check points but I also wouldn't want to be Israeli with rockets and rocks (yes rocks not "stones") being thrown at my car, or suicide bombers blowing up my local pizza parlour.

How do you even begin to resolve it?

[Dobbyafreeelf]

I don't pretend to know anywhere near enough about the situation beyond what I have read on the internet.
But the way I see it is that at some point someone has to step in and say enough is enough. The history of it is of course incredibly important but at some point the future of all parties needs to become more important than the wrongs of the past. The only way through this is through diplomatic channels and I think that requires the UN or similar to step in and force both sides to the table.

[samG76]

Greenmarmalade - the Arabs lost the 6-day war, of course, but that doesn't mean the result was obvious from the start, and there was a genuine fear that Israel, which was only 9 miles across at its narrowest point, would be obliterated.. See below (also from wikipedia), showing that it was a failed ethnic cleansing of Jews...

On 26 May Nasser declared, "The battle will be a general one and our basic objective will be to destroy Israel",[16] The Arab people want to fight.[17]

in the end of May 1967, Nasser claimed in a public speech to have been aware of the Straits of Tiran closure implications: "Taking over Sharm El Sheikh meant confrontation with Israel. It also means that we ready to enter a general war with Israel. It was not a separate operation".[18]

President Abdul Rahman Arif of Iraq said that "the existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is an opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948".[19] The Iraqi Prime Minister predicted that "there will be practically no Jewish survivors".

In May 1967, Hafez al-Assad, then Syria's Defense Minister declared: "Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian Army, with its finger on the trigger, is united... I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation.

[DeepThinkingGirl]

Bells3032

Let’s talk about what’s happening now instead of debating the wider picture. We all know that the situation there is complicated and has a complicated history.

Let’s talk about whether any sort of history justifies what’s happening now!

The topic isn’t “who is to blame for this conflict”. The topic is, “why is no one able to hold human rights violators accountable regardless of who is to blame”.

[Bells3032]

@DeepThinkingGirl I admire your eloquence. And agree with you. I think we can all abhor the murder of innocent civilians, especially children, on both sides of this (and any conflict). Sadly, it is the innocent 99% that suffer in this war. I appreciate your ability to agree to disagree.

for what it's worth i think that everyone has the right to feel safe in their home, I abhor the killing of children this week.

[DeepThinkingGirl]

for what it's worth i think that everyone has the right to feel safe in their home, I abhor the killing of children this week.

Thank you. But why do you think leaders aren’t able to vocalise that and hold the perpetrators accountable to have boundaries in how they behave towards the other regardless of any feelings of enimosity ? And don’t you think they should ?

I don’t feel like I’m an eloquent person in the slightest. But if my own kids were the ones dying, I would want all other discussions to be shut down and discuss what they need to happen to bring them back to safety. And right now, what needs to happen is for Israel to be told BY LEADERS to stop.

And for that, as many people as possible need to be aware and put pressure. Please.

[postcardfromme]

Thank you OP! I couldn't agree more

[Lauren15]

The six day war was almost 50 years ago. Nasser and co have gone. The present day Egyptian government do not hold warm feelings towards the Israelis but know peace and stability is in their best interest. They actually help the Israelis by stopping arms being smuggled through Sinai. One of the reasons Egyptians turned against the Morsi government was that they were facilitating arms smuggling into Gaza and that angered moderate Egyptians.
My point is that Israel in the 21st century is secure, wealthy and powerful. They can afford to show humanity to their poor and stateless neighbours. Lifting them up would benefit the whole region. The present situation is one of apartheid that the world watches and tolerates.

[Greenmarmalade]

Thank you @samG76 I’m going to read more about this.

[Faffandahalf]

I agree that it serves no interest other than to muddy waters of what is happening now by consistently going back to the history books and events of the past.

Right now Israel is in a position of all the power force and strength. It has the support of the US and no accountability for its actions at all. It has no resistance to its continual persecution of Palestinians.

That is what needs to be discussed. Right now in this moment the Palestinians are an oppressed minority. How can the world make Israel stop its persecution?

[Bells3032]

@DeepThinkingGirl when did i say Israel shouldn't be held accountable? i completely agree they should be held accountable for their actions, 100%. I just disagree with people making it as simple as Israel = bad country who are ethnically cleansing, Palestine = innocent people just wanting to live in peace. it's a long and nuanced and extremely complicated issue and the history of the conflict is so difficult and fraught.

I also disagree with MN deleting discussions on this. people have the right to debate. So long as it doesn't slide into any sort of antisemitic of Islamophobic rhetoric. Admittedly some people on here have begun to slide a little over the line though i choose to believe they are doing it in ignorance of the history of those accusations than genuine malice.

[SimonJT]

@SofiaMichelle

So saying muslims want to take over the world isn’t islamophobic?

Obviously that is, and I genuinely can’t recall reading that.

You didn't see it, because no one said it *@HannaHat*

Conveniently for Goady OP, and others, the thread is no longer there as proof, though.

Yes they did.

[Bells3032]

@Faffandahalf because in order to understand what is happening now you have to understand what has happened in the past? this isn't one single incident - it is decades of conflict and hatred on both sides. it's not so simple to break it down to this one incident.

As they say those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it.

[Faffandahalf]

I’m not talking about this week. I am talking about the current state of affairs in Palestine and the fact that they are in no way a force equal to the might and power of Israel.

I see you think that describing Israel’s action with any kind of emotive language is sliding into anti semitism. It’s not.
I do believe they are carrying out ethnic cleansing. That’s not anti Semitic.
They are an oppressive state. That’s what I believe. That’s not anti Semitic.
They commit atrocities. That’s what I believe. That’s not anti Semitic.
Whether you agree with what I believe or think it’s untrue or not is irrelevant really. But Is it anti Semitic? No.