To ask if there are any groups of reasonably minded women & trans women trying to meet each other 1/2 way and sort this whole sorry mess out?

[Smiledwiththerisingsun]

I have been mostly on the side of the TERFS (trying to explain reality to fuckwits) until recently.

But the issue of trans rights trampling all over women's rights has been discussed in the mainstream media now & I think people get it.

I'm just wondering how we can reach an amicable conclusion?

I have a couple of friends with trans or non binary kids. They are lovely. And I wouldn't mind sharing a bathroom with them.

They are not the same as a male rapist saying "I'm a woman put me in a female prison"

Surely we can treat the two situations differently?

There needs to be more kindness on both sides.

Anyone agree?

The hour is late.

@Smiledwiththerisingsun

I have been mostly on the side of the TERFS (trying to explain reality to fuckwits) until recently.

But the issue of trans rights trampling all over women's rights has been discussed in the mainstream media now & I think people get it.

I'm just wondering how we can reach an amicable conclusion?

I have a couple of friends with trans or non binary kids. They are lovely. And I wouldn't mind sharing a bathroom with them.

They are not the same as a male rapist saying "I'm a woman put me in a female prison"

Surely we can treat the two situations differently?

There needs to be more kindness on both sides.

Anyone agree?

Sorry. Not giving up my safe space and not taking up a chance. “Whether the melon falls on the knife or the knife falls on the melon, it's the melon that suffers.”

But how would you know what sort of person each one is if you didn't know them already? Is there going to be some sort of vetting system (always call family and friends to vouch for each one) before they enter the women/girls's bathrooms, etc?

There are good and bad people in all groups so it's really not about knowing a good 'un.

No.

I agree there needs to be kindness on both sides but mainly from the side of those doing/trying to do the invasion.

No. We are busy and this isnt our problem.

It's like saying surely there must be a BAME group willing to do some brainstorming with racists about how they can be more respectful.

"kindness on both sides"

Be kind and let men shower with my daughter?

So it's up to women to be nice and kind and find a solution for a problem only affecting males? Sigh.

Nope.

What would halfway look like? Women's spaces are either single sex or they're not - it's a zero sum game. Whenever gc feminists state that we're on board with additional, unisex single cubicled provision on top of existing single sex facilities, this is rejected by TRAs because it doesn't validate trans identities. This is the reasonable compromise that we offer and they reject it. I'm really interested to see what a compromise suggested by the TRA side would look like. Genuinely. Because atm, it seems like nothing less than women's total capitulation at the expense of our own boundaries will please them. Totally happy to be proved wrong.

@Thislittlefinger123

So it's up to women to be nice and kind and find a solution for a problem only affecting males? Sigh.

Nope.

This x 10.

great - now sort out israel and palestine

I agree that it feels as if there is a more balanced approach now in mainstream media, and therefore the time is coming when we will need to find a way to reach an accommodation with some people who would absolutely have refused to listen to us before. I think there will be some people who have found their hill to die on; others will be looking for face-saving ways to row back. How to approach the latter group, who have adopted some absolutely insane positions and will be regretting it, is an interesting question.

You know how it is with feminist victories: the feminist position is ridiculous until it is won, and then everyone denies they ever opposed it. That's started happening already.

Yes OP, I agree. Women need to be protected but trans people also need to be protected. I have no idea how you square this circle but I don't want trans people to suffer being another group condemned to male violence.

People on here comparing transwomen to racists really are utterly disgusting.

Is this about trans women again, male to female transitioners? I’d be more interested in talking to female to male transitioners, I think a lot of them are responding to the same pressures and same common problem we all are - old-fashioned women-centred feminists and Muslim women in their burkas. That problem is men and male-centred societies. I’m not too sure why a group of males who’ve been leading with particularly aggressive attitudes still think women should compromise anything.

The kind, middle ground is clearly additional unisex facilities. Win for all. What is the kind, middle ground for TRAs? Invade female single sex spaces?

@SenselessUbiquity
What do you mean when you say its started happening already?

Women’s single sex spaces are not yours to give away. I’m not being mean/unkind, women’s rights have been fought for by other women over the years & they are not up for grabs. If people want to campaign for 3rd spaces or gender neutral facilities in addition to women only spaces, then that is fine with me.

Its utterly bizarre how this has taken hold. I feel very sad for the young people destroying their fertility and health in pursuit of an impossible dream. For the late transitioning AGPs pushing the agenda less so.

You might not mind sharing a bathroom with them but I would. And no one can decide that it's fine on my behalf.

I have been mostly on the side of the TERFS

terfs?

How to approach the latter group, who have adopted some absolutely insane positions and will be regretting it, is an interesting question
Not up to women to answer that question. They can find their way back. Actions have consequences and I, for one, am not ready to forget and forgive the irreparable damage this has caused to so many women and children. Why should I?

'Meet me halfway said the unreasonable man...'

That's a no from me. I don't give a shiny shit how nice your mates are. My DH is a fucking angel and I'm not asking you to share a toilet with him.

Can we rerun the other thread with a vote instead?

@Pukkatea

Yes OP, I agree. Women need to be protected but trans people also need to be protected. I have no idea how you square this circle but I don't want trans people to suffer being another group condemned to male violence.

People on here comparing transwomen to racists really are utterly disgusting.

You would think that women have set an example by achieving their right to safe spaces and women-only sports, etc. What is stopping trans women from doing this same thing? they can have their own spaces too

How do I, my daughters and my mother know that your friends trans or non binary kids are lovely?

You know them and are happy to share a bathroom with them, I do not know them and am not happy to share a bathroom with them.

If you let one in you let all in as a precedent is set, how can you do otherwise?

The compromise is an additional separate space for those who do not wish to use the facilities designated for their sex.