To ask if there are any groups of reasonably minded women & trans women trying to meet each other 1/2 way and sort this whole sorry mess out?

[Smiledwiththerisingsun]

I have been mostly on the side of the TERFS (trying to explain reality to fuckwits) until recently.

But the issue of trans rights trampling all over women's rights has been discussed in the mainstream media now & I think people get it.

I'm just wondering how we can reach an amicable conclusion?

I have a couple of friends with trans or non binary kids. They are lovely. And I wouldn't mind sharing a bathroom with them.

They are not the same as a male rapist saying "I'm a woman put me in a female prison"

Surely we can treat the two situations differently?

There needs to be more kindness on both sides.

Anyone agree?

[Cyberworrier]

Reasonable, women-respecting transwomen like Fionne Orlander and Debbie Hayton actively campaign for third spaces for the safety, dignity and privacy of all- and unfortunately get horrible abuse from TRAs in return. An equitable solution is not what a lot of gender campaigners actively want, as some only will feel validated if they are accepted into women’s spaces, thus dismantling single sex spaces. Women’s boundaries are being undermined and dismantled. Many trans people disagree with what’s happening. It’s a terrible state of affairs.

[Angryresister]

Well at the moment Dimid I’d be very wary of getting into bed with many of the left also, given how women have been ejected from political parties etc over this issue

[SenselessUbiquity]

@CrotchBurn what I meant by "it's happening already" is that some activist organisations have started denying things that they said ("born in the wrong body"); other organisations (eg BBC) have tweaked their public facing materials and not been transparent about it. I have a sense that the mainstream middle ground position has shifted slightly; and some people, who want to be seen to be reasonable, are denying going along with stuff that they actually did go along with.

[GreenSlide]

Do you know what's not kind? Allowing children to believe that they have been born in the wrong body, telling them that they have a 'girl brain' or a 'boy brain', giving them access to drugs that will permanently damage their bodies many years before their brains have developed fully enough to realise the consequences of all of this. Don't try to lecture MNers on how to be kind to trans people, when the very charities and institutions that are supposed to be supporting 'trans' children are using them as a science experiment and throwing them under the bus.

[Toseland]

Yes Quaagars lots of ‘em. You can see what the are like here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3955276-resource-thread-of-tra-screenshots

[peak2021]

Is the issue trans women, or those who claim to speak for them, or support them?

[HermioneWeasley]

It’s not an issue of kindness though, you either have sex segregated spaces, services and sports or you don’t. You either think sterilising gay and autistic children is ok or you don’t.

Being women isn’t some elite club that were horrible meanies keeping TW out of, you’re either an adult human female or you’re not. Kindness doesn’t enter into it.

[Thewithesarehere]

Imagine you are a man, imagine you didn’t win in any men-only rugby competition. Now imagine you are suddenly allowed to play on the women rugby team and you can get a scholarship to a prestigious university whose fees you can’t afford otherwise.
Now imagine you are a woman on that rugby team

[wellthatsunusual]

@DimidDavilby

I agree with you OP but the virulent transphobes on here never will. I honestly do not think that womens rights figure very high on their agenda, they just really hate trans people. You can see that from the way they merrily get into bed with the far right.

That's an absurd piece of logic. Who is in bed with the far right? And gender critical women certainly can't be 'in bed with' the left since those political parties expel them...

[CrotchBurn]

@SenselessUbiquity

That's good that the mainstream may be waking up to the ridiculousness of this debate.

[Souther]

It's not a womans job to 'be kind'
Female only spaces are non-negotiable.

[Blubellsarebells]

Whats been happening at gids tavistock doesnt even deserve the word experiment.
Experiments are controlled and collect data.
They didnt even bother.
Its worse than an experiment.
Im not sure what the word is but its grim.

[MustardMitt]

kindness on both sides

You know what? No. I'm sick to the back fucking teeth of being asked to 'be kind'.

No one tells men to be kind. And if they did, no one would send death threats if they politely said 'no'.

FTR I am kind to children. I would be kind to a trans or non-binary child - but I'm not going to be dictated to by one about stuff that they can literally only have a limited understanding of.

[Quaagars]

[quote Toseland]Yes Quaagars lots of ‘em. You can see what the are like here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3955276-resource-thread-of-tra-screenshots[/quote]
Oh well, lots of 'em, then that means all the trans then?
Which is what was implied in the earlier post.
Yours isn't much better
There's lots here
So look this is what they're like!

[loopyapp]

@Greenslide that isn't the issue being discussed though is it?

Any one on both sides with any sense of decency do not want children to be indoctrinated into anything.

[Emeraldshamrock]

Create a separate safe space it is the only solution.

[Quaagars]

It's not a womans job to 'be kind'

Agreed.
Which is why I'm getting increasingly blunter.

[BernardBlackMissesLangCleg]

I'm just not convinced that it's kind, in the long run, to play along with the belief that one's sex is determined by an inner indescribable feeling that manifests via adherence to a particular set of sex-stereotypes

this. there's nothing kind about playing along with someone fooling themselves that they can have something impossible

we're the grown ups. we need to really be kind to children and be clear about reality with them. humans cannot change sex

[GreenSlide]

[quote loopyapp]@Greenslide that isn't the issue being discussed though is it?

Any one on both sides with any sense of decency do not want children to be indoctrinated into anything.

[/quote]

Oh right ok then. I'll just shut up and let you tell us all how we should be nice to trans people, even though they're the ones being harmed by this recent TWAW ideology.

[IHeartTheWitcher]

I went to reply to one post and realised I agreed with many.
I'm all for being who you want to be but that's your fight, not mine.

[Sheleg]

@DimidDavilby

I agree with you OP but the virulent transphobes on here never will. I honestly do not think that womens rights figure very high on their agenda, they just really hate trans people. You can see that from the way they merrily get into bed with the far right.

You're still banging this drum? Really? The time for throwing around accusations like this is long past. Read the room.

[Blubellsarebells]

Im not generalising.
Im talking about the people who do that.
Maybe they should stop if they want to look good.
Hardly behaviour thats likely to convince women to welcome them in.
More they likely they dont care about being welcomed but will rather force the way in.
Its not a good luck.
They are harming trans people.