This is fucking sexist

[catflapuk]

So, I work in a fucking men's domain. I'm so angry.

We are a team of 3 people - one for Americas, me for Europe, one for APAC. Both my colleagues are male.

Another team is working on a global client project, including Americas, Europe and APAC (in this order) and requires our input. My team's names will be listed as the team of contributing experts.

The fucking lead of this team, who is also male, lists my male colleagues first and me last.

AIBU to be so fucking annoyed?

YANBU. I deliberately always name women first. Just my little way of trying to redress the balance.

Is it alphabetical?

Depends on if its alphabetical and what your surname is?

No it can't be alphabetical

YABU it's just the order of the names. Why are you assuming it's sexist? Is there something you're missing out?

It would sound petty if you pointed it out. Does it matter. Somebody has to be last.

Are you going to ask about the rationale for it OP. I would be requesting a conversation about it and express why it feels loaded.

Unless it is being done in order of %contribution or job rank then I would assume the same as you and would seek a conversation asserting my concerns or raise with HR, if you have HR or an equivalent.

yanbu

sounds like everyday sexism

YANBU, could you ask him to list by alphabetical order?

Americas
Asia-Pacific
Europe

Women appear to be so complicit in the patriarchy. Amazing really. This is an example of unconscious bias.

Ask him to change it to alphabetical after his name as he’s the boss

It's just a list of names, and it is in alphabetical order of the areas that you are responsible for.

Why don't you tell him that, while you appreciate being last on the list and therefore clearly the most important, you don't want your male colleagues to complain so perhaps it should be alphabetical.

YABU. Maybe he just created a group address and your name was added last. You've not commented on sexism in the workplace just your email. Why so angry?

I have already raised it and the guy says it wasn't deliberate and he will put me 2nd. He is junior compared with me.

For fuck sake, I can't believe I am still dealing with this in 2020.

I'm sure people also aren't deliberately racist. Doesn't mean it's ok and they should not be more aware.

For everyone asking, because there is an order to things...the key contributors are listed first so the further down the list you are the less you contribute. Or you might just assume that men are seen as better, more important...and I am just a female supporting their work. FFS

Would anyone go to HR because their name is last on an email? If you experience discrimination in the work place but to complain over such a trivial issue is excessive.

Protocol is always to list people in same role alphabetically to avoid anyone getting fucked off about this sort of thing.

Some may think it's trivial but with work in general these sorts of things are sensitive, and doubly so if you're a woman in a male dominated environment.

If you get on with your team I might say oh look in last hahaha with a raised eyebrow and leave it at that. Hopefully they'll get the hint.

If you list our team alphabetically by surname, I come last (only woman). Sometimes that is reasonable. It isn't always.

@PhoneLock

It's just a list of names, and it is in alphabetical order of the areas that you are responsible for.

But it isn't. It is neither alphabetical or in order of the areas we are responsible for. I'd be 2nd in both cases.

Doesn't look good, I grant you. What are the relative sizes of the businesses? Where I work we order thing in terms of biggest businesses first so if APAC < Europe / Americas then we'd put APAC last.

He'll 'put you second'? Is he about 15? Alphabetical is the only way to avoid prior getting fucked off and even then someone complains they've been done out of something because of their name

This is basic standard stuff.

And if anyone thinks men don't get worked up over this stuff, sometimes get worked up, I can tell you that many do.

Sometimes very worked up that should say

Maybe because Americas and APAC come before Europe in alphabetical order? Or maybe for no reason at all.

Are you more senior than your two male colleagues? Why do you assume your name should come before anyone elses?

My 2 colleagues have the same title as me, same responsibility. Each of us is responsible for one region. Plus the project is being done Americas, Europe, APAC - in this order!

Given same title and the order I should be 2nd (unless it is alphabetical which it isn't).