This is fucking sexist

[catflapuk]

So, I work in a fucking men's domain. I'm so angry.

We are a team of 3 people - one for Americas, me for Europe, one for APAC. Both my colleagues are male.

Another team is working on a global client project, including Americas, Europe and APAC (in this order) and requires our input. My team's names will be listed as the team of contributing experts.

The fucking lead of this team, who is also male, lists my male colleagues first and me last.

AIBU to be so fucking annoyed?

[NearlyGranny]

It's a microaggression in a lifetime string if them and needs to be put right. It is important, or women's careers die by a hundred thousand papercuts.

[sillysmiles]

@luckylavender, how is she "massively overreacting" to correcting an error that is a direct reflection of contribution and merit?

[luckylavender]

Seriously ladies, in order for us to win the sexism fight we have to nail our colours to a big issue. Sweating the small stuff like this just makes us look like trouble makers & actually damages the fight. Tackle the big stuff first.

[Mrsmorton]

[intheningnangnong]

just makes us look like trouble makers



Did you understand what happened to the OP, or have you not read it?

[ShinyFootball]

Are men overreacting when they get upset about this sort of thing? And raise it? Which they do, I promise you. And people don't tell them off for it.

[BrexpatInSwitzerland]

@luckylavender

Seriously ladies, in order for us to win the sexism fight we have to nail our colours to a big issue. Sweating the small stuff like this just makes us look like trouble makers & actually damages the fight. Tackle the big stuff first.

Oh, God forbid a woman might be inconvenient. Troublesome, even! How extremely unladylike would this be!

Pass the smelling salts, please!

[Flittingabout]

"There must be a hundred posts on MN from women who don’t say anything to their partner because he will go in a bad mood, throw a strop, give them the silent treatment for days or even weeks.(Essentially some punishment or repercussions so speaking assertively).

That’s how men (people) ‘train‘ women to be like Stepford Wives. If they do something ‘wrong’ he reacts in a bad way. So they try harder the next time not to do that thing again. To be who he wants them to be, to not raise issues, to be not themselves. To only want the same things from life that he wants. Which generally ends up being a great housewife and working mother/willing sex partner whenever he wants it, while he does very little of the drudge work at home and thinks it’s fine to shout at them or lose his temper at them when he’s had a bad day.

I just copied this from another thread but is so relevant here. Women are trained not to cause a fuss or seek attention unless someone else, not always a man as we can see here, deems it worthy enough or significant enough of an issue for us to raise it. It is not for someone else to tell us what hill to die on.

[Sindragosan]

@luckylavender

Seriously ladies, in order for us to win the sexism fight we have to nail our colours to a big issue. Sweating the small stuff like this just makes us look like trouble makers & actually damages the fight. Tackle the big stuff first.

This can turn into bigger issues - all those times you weren't listed on a project report, someone else presented your work to the SMT, etc then get used against you when it comes to promotions. Suddenly there's a man saying you haven't contributed enough to group projects, don't have enough experience presenting, and so the job is going to the pushier man, who understands how the game is played.

[sillysmiles]

@luckylavender

Seriously ladies, in order for us to win the sexism fight we have to nail our colours to a big issue. Sweating the small stuff like this just makes us look like trouble makers & actually damages the fight. Tackle the big stuff first.

I understand what you mean, but I disagree with you. I think if more people stood calmly and firmly and assertively about the small stuff the bigger stuff wouldn't happen as much.
I, as I guess many people have had to calmly tell someone, I would appreciate if in future you would to x, or I need you to correct the project proposal document, the name order is incorrect.

You don't need to shout and scream (though being able to rant here makes things easier) but it the small things that make people realise that they can't automatically discredit you.

[Mrsmorton]

@luckylavender
This is Professor Dame Donna Kinnair and Professor Hugh Pennington. Can you spot the difference? Or is this small stuff that makes me look like a trouble maker?

[ShinyFootball]

was that yesterday on newsnight or something? I saw them both being interviewed about Corona

[ShinyFootball]

Of course many posters on here would see no problem, and say that if she flagged it, she's damaging women's reputation across the board etc etc and she should STFU.

[boabab]

Wish I had your life. Oh to be able to have the time and inclination to post such vacuous nonsense on the internet. Lucky you..

[thenamesarealltaken]

The fact the areas are Americas, APAC then Europe would likely mean your name could be listed last. I'm female in a male dominated industry for over 30 years. I just don't get this.

[Mrsmorton]

@thenamesarealltaken if you tried really hard, you could get it if you wanted to.

[luckylavender]

For all you ranting at me. I'm a woman & I've been in the workplace for a long time in senior positions. And it's my opinion that there are ways of doing things & ways of making yourself look like a trouble maker. And the title of the thread and some of the 'faux' outrage really confirms my point. I don't condone sexism but chose your battles and bide your time.

[GenerateUsername]

Things like this annoy me too, OP. I had one recently too. I've lived in my house for years and, of course, all the council tax bills came addressed to Miss AnduinsGirl. My partner moved in and we let the council know. The next bill is addressed to Mr John Smith and Miss Anduins Girl.

@AnduinsGirl I had this too. In our case I came first both alphabetically and in order of age. I rang to ask about it (because I'm like that) and they tried to tell me that the names were in "random order". Yeah and I'm Jacob Rees-Mogg

[sillysmiles]

And it's my opinion that there are ways of doing things & ways of making yourself look like a trouble maker.

I don't see how asking for something to be changed to agree with the company protocol is being made to look like a trouble maker.

If it were me, I too would ask for it to be changed. I would not say it was sexist, I would simply say it is incorrect and not following the established procedures. End of.
I might feel that there was an unconscious sexist bias to it, but I wouldn't necessarily say it.

[catflapuk]

@thenamesarealltaken

The fact the areas are Americas, APAC then Europe would likely mean your name could be listed last. I'm female in a male dominated industry for over 30 years. I just don't get this.

Jesus. Or FFS. The order is Americas, Europe, APAC. Read properly. Please.

[LydiaDusbyn]

At random, you had a 1 in 3 chance of being third on the list. If this is your idea of "fucking" sexism then God help us all. If your name had appeared at the top would you have felt patronised instead? I'm sensing a lot of anger there. I'm sensing a lot of anger everywhere. Lockdown has turned the world into one huge pressure cooker.

[sillysmiles]

At random, you had a 1 in 3 chance of being third on the list.

But there isn't an "at random". There already is a defined protocol for this. The person writing the document didn't follow protocol.

[NearlyGranny]

If you let the stuff that's 'too small to sweat' keep going by without a word, you end up in a position where people are telling you they never realised you even wanted career progression and asking why you never spoke up if it was an issue. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[dogsdinnerlady]

Over use of expletives by either sex is boring, unimaginative and listeners ultimately tune out the whole message. A quick read through the (mostly) fatuous posts on here proves my point. Swearing all the time isn't clever and detracts from any serious point the speaker might be trying to make (if any).

[Mrsmorton]

@dogsdinnerlady your posts manage to be boring and fatuous without any swearing. Congratulations.