This is fucking sexist

[catflapuk]

So, I work in a fucking men's domain. I'm so angry.

We are a team of 3 people - one for Americas, me for Europe, one for APAC. Both my colleagues are male.

Another team is working on a global client project, including Americas, Europe and APAC (in this order) and requires our input. My team's names will be listed as the team of contributing experts.

The fucking lead of this team, who is also male, lists my male colleagues first and me last.

AIBU to be so fucking annoyed?

[MrsFogi]

If you are all equal in this then the names should be listed in alphabetical order (by surname). Anything else smacks of sexism and you should comment.
I am always careful at work when e.g. emailing to list names in the address section alphabetically by surname and in the body of the email alphabetically by first name. And I would apply the same sort of logic to anything else in writing. Always rubbish for me because my surname is near the end of the alphabet!

[Chewbecca]

YANBU - it’s a great example of unconscious bias (assuming it was unconscious, not deliberate).

And no, in itself as a single, isolated example, it isn’t a huge thing, but all the little things add up to women being 2nd rate in the workplace and so we must address the little things.

FWIW, in my workplace protocol is East to West so we always start with Asia.

[Bonzabaybee]

YANBU. I see this all the time, and it fucks me off. Of course it may not be worth complaining about as an isolated incident, but it’s extremely telling about attitudes isn’t it.

In the wider context of our society as we know it, it’s hardly some mad coincidence that this happens so often. It may have been done unconsciously, nonetheless it reveals underlying attitudes.

It says less gravitas, less seniority, less significance.

These things should always be alphabetical order to avoid this sort of unconscious bias.

It’s not petty to be annoyed, it’s not nothing, and it’s not inconsequential.

[1ForAllnAllFor1]

Is there other issues of sexism brewing ? Sounds like this is the straw that broke the camels back.

[Cam2020]

Ffs who has the time to bother about gender politics in how they list email recipients.

It's exactly this sort of bullshit that undermines real cases of sexism.

[Perisoire]

"if you have any questions for Sarah or Mr Smith please let us know".

That's insane!

[Eddielzzard]

Ask them to correct the mistake. Don't allow them to treat you like this. No rant. No sarcasm. Just a polite request to rectify the issue.

[Viviennemary]

This what about meeeeeee attitude when there is absolutely no need for it just makes people look silly and insecure. If you've cause for complaint then fair enough.

[user1471447863]

It may very well be unconscious bias - but that bias may not be sexism. He may simply not like OP as much as the other contributer for any number of reasons. Too touchy? She's hard work? Always 'what about me me me'?
One thing that is clear is that many previously posters are openly sexist and discriminatory through their admissions of deliberately listing females first. Sexism is sexism regardless of direction and is unacceptable. You are as bad as what you are claiming you are against and does your cause no help.

[intheningnangnong]

I'd notice and I agree OP.

It's these small details that add to a 'feeling' around a project. It's implied and it matters.

I hate how people think you should let it go, or it's petty. How does a dripping pipe create a flood? One drip at a time.

[Namenic]

I think it depends. Not all e-mails are contribution based and not all industries have a protocol as to who should be listed first etc.

If it is one of those industries that has a strict protocol about who is listed in order then you’re not being unreasonable. If it is not clear, then I guess we don’t know if it is sexism.

I guess how you approach it also depends on how your colleagues would react and what they are like.

[ShinyFootball]

'Names list should be by order of who did the most work in the document, neither alphabetical or by sex.'

How does that work at the start of a project 😁

We don't have a time machine at our work sadly

[ShinyFootball]

No one lists things by who did the most work

The boss would always be last and some PAs would be in the top 3. Which would be better tbh.

[ShinyFootball]

Sarah and Mr Smith...

There was a thing done at a conference, it was medal or something.

Female presenters were usually introduced with their first name 'here's Sarah to tell us about x' while men were usually introduced 'dr Smith'.

Trivial, nothing to see here, don't make a fuss, expecting equal respect/ recognition is unladylike etc etc etc

[VenusTiger]

Americas
APAC
Europe

That's alphabetical

[Whenwillthisbeover]

Same as letters either just being addressed to Mrnor to Mr and Mrs in that order. Makes my blood boil.

[ShinyFootball]

Alright some people may list things in order of who did the most work but, it's not like that in our industry.

[AnnaBanana333]

I'm probably being dim but I'm not sure from your posts if there are only three names (leader of each region) or many more names? I think it makes a difference because if I wrote a list of three I would just do it in the order they popped into my head. For longer lists I always go alphabetical to avoid this type of thing.

[SharonasCorona]

@VenusTiger

Thanks for that illuminating contribution, but that was already suggested at the beginning of the thread

[imsooverthisdrama]

I don't see how this is sexist, if I was first or last on the list I wouldn't care .

[VenusTiger]

@SharonasCorona - so sorry! I saw a post suggesting the names were alphabetical, not the continents though

[MrsNoah2020]

Americas
APAC
Europe
That's alphabetical

Yes it is, well done. However, the OP has already explained that this is not the order in which the projects are listed. It's in para 3 of her OP.

[ShinyFootball]

Re Sarah and Mr Smith

There was a conference, think it was medical and they noted this.

Most of the women speaking were introduced by their first name, the men by title and surname or title and full name.

Here's Sarah and Dr Steve Smith.

Nothing to see here, very trivial.

[RainMustFall]

It honestly wouldn't bother me in the grand scheme of things. Salary parity would, however.

[SharonasCorona]

@VenusTiger

No worries but there is a post with the continents too.