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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

575 replies

letsseethanshallwe · 07/11/2018 13:20

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
eloliphant · 07/11/2018 13:22

I think she should use the women's toilets and I'd have no problem with it.

MatildaTheCat · 07/11/2018 13:22

Yawn.

OlennasWimple · 07/11/2018 13:23

The argument lies that it's not about passing (or not passing - and in real life, very very few transwomen do pass even if in photos they might)

It's about maintaining single sex spaces which exist for good reasons: privacy, dignity and safety.

If there is a problem with using the men's toilet, why is it for women to solve this by giving up their own facilities?

SooticaTheWitchesCat · 07/11/2018 13:24

If I saw her in the Ladies I wouldn't have any idea she wasn't a woman anyway. I would have no problem even if I did know.

Original poster
letsseethanshallwe · 07/11/2018 13:24

So were should this women go to the toilet in the men’s? Or just wet herself!

OP posts:
Munchmallow · 07/11/2018 13:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
letsseethanshallwe · 07/11/2018 13:25

Thanks for making fun of my dyspraxia munchmallow cheap shot.

OP posts:
astoundedgoat · 07/11/2018 13:25

Definitely women's toilets. Her own safety would be jeopardised in the men's.

I'm gender critical, but if someone is really "walking the walk" as this person evidently is, rather than putting on a dress once a week and winning "businesswoman of the year" then I respect their wishes.

There are bigger issues in the trans debate (castrating/sterilising non-gender-conforming children, humouring rapists) than a person who looks exactly like a woman, being allowed to behave like a woman.

Pick your battles and all that.

Idontbelieveinthemoon · 07/11/2018 13:26

The issue isn't "why should they use the men's loo" but "why should they use the women's". Why not have a unspecified bathroom and cut out all the issues?

Shoppingwithmother · 07/11/2018 13:26

Can’t decide if the dyspraxia comment was a joke or not

Jammydodger1981 · 07/11/2018 13:27

Do they have a GRC? Do they have a penis?

If they don’t have a GRC and they do have a penis then yes, they should use the men’s. Do you honestly think because a transwoman is pretty they won’t be a threat? Genuine question.

DeerHearts · 07/11/2018 13:27

I have no issue with genuine transgender people using the toilet of the gender they identify with. I have major issue with self id granting any sexual predator the right to waltz in to a womans protected space and do as they please. I don't believe transwomen are sexual predators. I do believe sexual predators will abuse self id for their own sick pleasure. I have no idea what the solution to this is, but removing womens sex based rights is not what we should be doing. There needs to be a solution that protects EVERYONE

Weezol · 07/11/2018 13:27

You may want to look into 'passing privelidge'.

DeerHearts · 07/11/2018 13:29

If her safety were to be conpromised in the mens, then its about time men were held accountable for their actions instead of women. Men need to get over the fact that some people with a penis like to wear dresses and make up. Its the men who need to be educated here, not women.

OunceOfFlounce · 07/11/2018 13:29

Its a very close cropped pic. They could be 6 ft 6 and very muscular irl...it doesn't really matter when you know almost all sexual crime is committed by men and the likelihood of committing crime doesn't change in men who id as women.

Datun · 07/11/2018 13:30

Of the five or six men in the country who look like that, I'd say knock yourself out.

What on earth do you want women to say? If we don't know, we don't know.

Fortunately we don't tend to base laws around individual people.

Original poster
letsseethanshallwe · 07/11/2018 13:32

shopping yes it was genuine, I have moderate dyspraxia and mild dyslexia. Really struggle with anything that comes under SPAG, I read a lot slower and have a green tint on my laptop and overlays. That comment generally saddens me. I’m not trying to be rude just trying to have a conversation that was uncalled for.
I know she has had surgery not sure about GRC. I agree that there should be some gender neutral spaces AS WELL as men and women’s and this would be best for transgender people as well she is lucky to pass but at the same time she’s fine through a long and hard transition.

OP posts:
farfallarocks · 07/11/2018 13:32

In my view it all depends on whether they still have a penis

JuneFromBethesda · 07/11/2018 13:32

Good post DeerHearts

exLtEveDallas · 07/11/2018 13:33

If they still have a penis then yes they should use the men's. If they don't want to do that then they should campaign for more single cubicle locked door bathrooms rather than expect women to move aside for them. I would happily support any and all Trans movement towards unisex toilets that are safe for all to use.

NailsNeedDoing · 07/11/2018 13:34

If there is a penis still attached, then they should not be in the women's toilets. If the men's is unsafe, then use the accessible/disabled toilets.

If someone has committed to becoming their opposite gender and had surgery to remove their penis, then I'd happily welcome them into the women's toilets.

Original poster
letsseethanshallwe · 07/11/2018 13:34

Totally agree dear hearts nobody should be scared, I feel for my family member who has such a fear of public bathrooms as he Dosent feel he can use women’s and the threat of the men’s scares him and it’s a shouldnt.

OP posts:
LagerthaTheShieldMaiden · 07/11/2018 13:38

If the person in the photograph is a male then they should be in the men's, regardless of make up, a wig and a dress. Go tell men to be more accepting, rather than telling women to budge up.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 07/11/2018 13:38

would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.

Why would using facilities set aside for men put this one in so much danger?

We segregate on the basis of sex, not gender presentation. 95% of men who identify as women keep their penis, including those who undergo facial feminisation surgery and have breast implants.

Trans rights activists argue that men who identify as women present no risk to women in the ladies. If this is true, and men pose no risk I can see no reason why men who identify as women shouldn't use the gents.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/11/2018 13:39

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect.

Except for no one is actually, like, you know, saying this.