Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

One probably very photoshopped picture makes no difference.
It’s very simple
Penis= men’s toilets
And as for someone saying of course she’s a woman just look at her, are you saying that those of us who were born as women and have female genetics aren’t women because we dot look like that?
Saying long blonde hair, a shit load of make up and fake tits is what makes a woman is offensive.

But the protection exists under the gender reassignment provisions of the Equality Act and someone who has had bottom surgery would qualify.

Well yes, if they identified as trans, or were perceived as trans. But it is a bit misleading. Because they have to do bugger all to be protected. Literally saying it out loud, or telling their mum, is enough.

Which is why so many men have managed to use this to dominate women. The equality act is not fit under these conditions.

She should use the female toilet. Toilets are not single sex or safe spaces. Men clean women’s toilets! There is also no security on them and absolutely nothing to stop a male identifying and looking man walking into one.
And even if women like the one pictured in the op were required by law to use the mens who is going to enforce it? To all appearances they look biologically female. Are people suggesting that you should have to lift your dress or provide a blood test before going for a piss!

does he / she have a penis? if the answer is yes, then they use the mens

Toilets are not single sex or safe spaces
WHAAAAA????

Well yes, if they identified as trans, or were perceived as trans. But it is a bit misleading. Because they have to do bugger all to be protected. Literally saying it out loud, or telling their mum, is enough.

That simply isn't correct I'm afraid

I think your points are valid but making bad arguments doesn't help women.

people like that have always passed unnoticed amongst women. They may not be women but nobody was threatened by the handful of people that had commitment and determination to pass.
Unfortunately with the insistence of self ID and the modern insistence that we top talking about womens bioogical issues as womens issues at all and start rewriting what woman actually is, that now the Karen Whites and Davina Ayrtons and Ian Huntleys and that fucking dude in a skirt that attacked maria maclachlan and all the others, then women are actually at real risk from this all acceptance bullshit and TWAW. Even transwomen like this one now have lost credibility.

To answer your question, from this picture I wouldnt even notice if that transwoman was in a womens toilet, but its not just about toilets is it. I would not be happy if that transwoman was on an all womens shortlist for example

The fact is that women are more at risk of assault in mixed sex changing spaces / toilets as shown by recent FOI requests and an article in The Times. Set feelings aside and actually look at the facts.
Currently a man in a woman's space can be challenged. Women can enforce boundaries. Self-id takes that right away. It aggressively teaches women that they are not allowed any boundaries and they are not allowed to question what a man says about himself.

I'm just going to repeat this: they are not allowed to question what a man says about himself. Because I think everyone who is being honest can see what a risk such a mindset poses to women and girls.

user1981287

The wording is

To be protected from gender reassignment discrimination, you do not need to have undergone any specific treatment or surgery to change from your birth sex to your preferred gender. This is because changing your physiological or other gender attributes is a personal process rather than a medical one.

You can be at any stage in the transition process – from proposing to reassign your gender, to undergoing a process to reassign your gender, or having completed it.

The problem is the wording 'any stage in the transition process'. Without being specific, it's meaningless.

You don't even have to be trans:

...someone thinks you are transsexual, for example because you occasionally cross-dress or are gender variant (this is known as discrimination by perception)

you are connected to a transsexual person, or someone wrongly thought to be transsexual (this is known as discrimination by association)

I'm sure that's not the way some of the people thought the act would be interpreted. But certainly others knew that is what would happen.

Forgot Link.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination#act

Bumsex have you not noticed that if a man is cleaning the ladies' loo it's always made clear to women that he id doing so - there will always be a sign up.

"Would you really say this ^ woman MAN^ has to^ pee in the men's toilets"^

If mens' toilets are so dangerous, why let a man into the womens' toilets ?
There is a much better case for letting in small 12 or even 14-year-old boys

That man would be much better able to fight off an attack in the men's toilets than I would be;
he has the inherent musculature and bones of a man

I"m a 5'3" woman, aged 62

He would also be difficult to fight off in the womens' toilets

Currently, if some 6'4" bloke in a skirt strolls into the loo, or the gym changing room and starts eyeing me up or wanking while I'm naked,

I would just grab my towel charge out the door and yell for help
The troop of burly weight-lifting blokes in the training room outside will charge in to my rescue and chuck him out on his perverted arse.

After self-ID, my rescuers would have to wait until he actually hits or tries to rape me - and even then they might wait to be sure, if he is yelling about his legal rights.

So I wouldn't be able to use the womens' facilities, once a pervy man there can claim to be a woman and the whole damn gym has to pretend he is.

Yes I think they should use the Mens loos (or unisex disabled toilets).

If the transgender demand continues and its not just a fad then I hope that unisex toilets will be provided alongside Male/Female toilets.

I welcome more Female & Unisex toilets being provided, rather than allowing more men to use the current extremely overstretched Female facilities.

Post Op MTF, I am not as bothered about restrictions using Female toilets, but most don't have the op?
I am happy for FTM to continue to use Female facilities.

@BigChocFrenzy surely no one is going to let someone stand wanking in a shared changing room? That's not acceptable regardless of identity.

The core around this issue is values

1. does passing or looking gorgeous entitle different privileges to those not as attractive? Surely they should all be treated the same?

2. why does a penis haver who chooses to dress up / where make up (remember not all women do) get to decide its not safe for them to use toilets that other penis havers use?

3. if a penis haver decides they want to use female facilities why do biological women have to accept that?

Values seem more in penis havers favour regardless of the situation.

I don't have a problem with anyone who claims to be a woman using the ladies toilet no matter whether they look like the photo or an obvious man dressed as a woman. Cubicles are private so I don't really see the issue and no one has the right to check other members of the public to see if they have a penis so there is no way of policing this.

I guess it's all down to my right, as a female born human being, to privacy and feeling safe. Do I have the right to be safe? Do I have a right to privacy? Am I important? Is my sister? My niece?

Is my physically disabled friend important enough to be guaranteed that her intimate care is taken care of by a female, as is her wish? She's been sent two men to shower her in the last few months, and those weren't trans, just male carers who realised fairly quickly that it was very inappropriate, when they realised that it was shower day.

Could she refuse a trans carer, should one be assigned to her?

Would YOU want a trans woman washing your intimately, OP? When you're physically helpless, and alone with them? Just how comfortable would YOU be?

That was a ramble, sorry, but my point is - it's not about toilets. It is so so sooooo not about toilets (not totally, anyway).

Penis - men’s toilets

Vagina - women’s toilets.

It really is that simple- why do people feel the need to blur the lines to something genetically there?!

Gender and trans status is irrelevant.

Males should use the male toilets. If that male feels in danger from other males then they either need to challenge and try and fix that problem, or campaign for a space they do feel safe in.

Regardless of how much surgery a male has, its still not our daughters responsibility to protect him from other males.

There is currently gatekeeping which prevents certain people getting a GRC, including peadophiles

Actually, the GRC process isn't like a DBS check or good character assurance. Convicted criminals of all sorts can qualify for a GRC. (Note - i'm not saying that people with a GRC are paedophiles, or more likely to be paedophiles than the non-GRC population, just that having one isn't a guarantee of anything other than they have a medical diagnosis that supports their requests to change their legal gender)

If any man who wants to can say he’s trans or temporarily being a woman for the day and use the ladies then the trans woman in the OP will be just as unsafe in the ladies as she currently feels in the gents. How is that a step forward???

Half naked people in the toilets?

Well yes - how do you pee without freeing your nether regions from their lower garments? And don't even talk about bloody jumpsuits!

Toilets are separated on sex, not on how you look. And it shouldn't need to be enforced - if you're planning to go into toilets that aren't for your sex, you are clearly not someone who we want in those toilets, as you're unable to accept other people's boundaries!