Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

If self ID becomes a thing, you realise men won't have to even attempt to look like a woman to be female don't you, from Transsexuals right up to bearded men with fetishes?

Fair enough but who's stopping the dangerous men right now? There's no security on the door! If someone wants to attack someone in a public toilet then they can just open the door and do so, unfortunately. Unless I'm just not understanding something!

To be fair Captainkirks I'm biologically female and I'd look like that after a few weeks without hair removal...

ounceofflounce I have. An awful case and a terrible person, and should definitely be separated from the general population, as should all women who are convicted of sex crimes to keep the general population safe.

Why don't people get it - we don't want only girly looking people in our toilets, we only want natal women. Even if they look like men. Long hair and caked in make up does not a woman make of you have a penis

No but someone who has had top and bottom surgery would clearly be protected under the legislation.

No. The legislation does not depend on surgery. Surgery does not depend on the legislation. They're entirely separate.

I believe some countries made surgery a prerequisite to legally be called the opposite sex. But the UK doesn't.

Why do we need separate toilets at all? Just make them all unisex with cubicles. End of story. It's not like men need a urinal - or we'd all have them at home.

In the meantime, let her in the ladies - where there are already cubicles - and no one will ever know or need to know, except her.

Likewise changing rooms: individual cubicles.

And that would solve half the trans-angst I reckon.

Fair enough but who's stopping the dangerous men right now? There's no security on the door! If someone wants to attack someone in a public toilet then they can just open the door and do so, unfortunately!

Right now they are able to be challenged and removed as sex segregation is a legal right.

If GRA changes come in they will not.

Why do we need separate toilets at all?

Becuase assults against women increase in unisex toilets?

@captainkirksspookyghost you haven’t answered the question, but thanks for playing.

does anyone else who thinks penises determine bathrooms want to explain how penis ownership is currently checked? because, whatever Self ID may bring, there is nothing to say who currently checks for the peni of people going to the Ladies. it’s reasonable to assume that there are currently many women who don’t give a monkeys about their paperwork, peeing out of their penises in cubicles all over the land.

so. given that this is already happening, and is considered highly dangerous, who is checking genitals at the door? i mean, if it were such a huge threat, wouldn’t someone already have taken steps to address it?

just wondered.

captainkirk ah, I see. I get that argument. The point I would make back is that men who abuse if women’s toilets don’t need the excuse of self ID to be there, they’re already just going.

To answer your question - the person in the picture OP shouldn't "have" to use the men's, but it's absolutely not the obligation of women to provide him with somewhere to piss, and no I wouldn't want this person in my toilet. This is why I'd fight for a third space.

I think you should also think why people like this TW don't want to be in the toilet with men. Because they'd seemingly pose a danger, or make them feel uncomfortable? I'll wait until the penny drops

Interestingly these TW always "pass" on low-res Facetuned still images. Then you see a picture of them IRL of a video clip and suddenly they don't pass so well.

212 because at the moment if a male person enters the ladies he can be told to fuck off or security will be called. Self ID will stop that in its tracks. Remember Eddie Izzard whining that 13 year old girls chased him out of the ladies once? They'll be in the wrong under self ID.

Self ID is a groomers and abusers charter, and I actually think it's a moot point as to whether that is the aim of it or an unfortunate consequence.

I identify as an otter what about me.

I believe some countries made surgery a prerequisite to legally be called the opposite sex. But the UK doesn't.

THIS^
The UK is not the US the current System to get a GRC doesn't need a person to have surgery.
There is currently gatekeeping which prevents certain people getting a GRC, including peadophiles.

Self ID removes the gatekeeping.

Fair enough but who's stopping the dangerous men right now? There's no security on the door! If someone wants to attack someone in a public toilet then they can just open the door and do so, unfortunately. Unless I'm just not understanding something!

At the moment you could challenge a man in the ladies (if you felt comfortable to do so). I'm not sure it's actually illegal for a man to he in the ladies loos, but certainly on a customary level you could, it's the ladies toilet after all.

Under self ID you couldn't, because that man might 'identify' as a woman and questioning him is transphobia and could be harrassment.

So a person that ‘presents as a female’ is afraid of men who look like men, and that’s perfectly ‘understandable’, but women are not permitted to be afraid of transpeople who try to ‘present’ as women, in female spaces, as that makes them ‘bigots’. If they have a penis I don’t want to share a female space with them, no matter how they present. I’m more comfortable sharing spaces with genuine transsexuals, as I feel they are truly trans, however if someone hates being a man, I don’t understand how they can still love their obviously Male appendage.

Why are women being made to be responsible for the safety of people who say that they feel that they are women? Why is it not a problem that men should be responsible for? After all the ‘female presenting’ people are a subset of men.

If you have a penis you are a man, a vagina you are a woman.
You have the right to do as you please, imo if you have a vagina fashioned and go to the trouble of actually "transferring" to a woman, then you can use women's facilities.
Young girls shouldn't have to cope with a penis in a female space.

Fair enough but who's stopping the dangerous men right now? There's no security on the door! If someone wants to attack someone in a public toilet then they can just open the door and do so, unfortunately. Unless I'm just not understanding something!

You're reducing safeguarding by legitimately saying women's toilets are mixed sex. Every study of its kind shows that mixed sex toilets increases crime against women and children.

But it's not just about rape, either. Any man can make a woman feel desperately uncomfortable by doing virtually nothing.

Making smirking eye contact, or smugly looking you up and down. Who wants that when half naked, using a tampax machine, or having morning sickness?

And why should we? To validate a handful of men.

Up until a couple of years ago I think most women would not have had a problem with transwomen in the female toilets - it is this proposed change in the law which is causing the problems! Either that is the idea or it has all horrendously backfired.

And I would also add that a man doesn't have to be doing something very obvious in the toilets. Some men just get off on knowing they are making people uncomfortable.

Oh I cross posted with Datun there.

Right now they are able to be challenged and removed as sex segregation is a legal right.

If GRA changes come in they will not.

I understand but I'd say it's possible for anyone to walk into either toilet (maybe when it's quiet and no one sees them go in/they hide in a cubicle) and by the time they are challenged or removed it would be too late.

Self ID will put Genuine transwomen in danger, People are being mislead on what happening and media in america is clueless about the current GRA and what self ID is actually proposing.

I have a transfriend who is terrified of this change coming in.

would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.

Why? Are men dangerous or something?