To ask for your opinions on lap dances?

[snoopypoodle]

Just something I've been thinking about recently that's been brought on about a MNs DH watching porn and how it broke her boundaries.
BTW this is about men in relationships!!! IDRC what people do when they're single.

I don't mind porn. I don't encourage or approve much of men going to strip clubs but I wouldn't blow my top over it. However I do have quite specific views on lap dances.

I think there's not too much harm in going to a strip club and having a look if there's a group of lads on a stag do etc once in a blue moon (I wouldn't mind watching a male stripper on a hen do).
But the idea of actually paying for a girl to dance on your lap wiggle and grind her (probably naked or v.exposed) bits against you is a completely different matter.
You wouldn't let a strange woman you don't know come up to you and do that in a bar on a night out so why would you pay for it in a strip club?

The more I think about it the more I would see it as cheating if my DP did this. We've talked about it in the past as I know when he was single he did it with his friends etc and he said he doesn't really see the harm in it ie "it's just a bit of fun" . But he has admitted that I'm probably right in saying that he most likely would not like for me to have a naked man wave his penis in my face and grind on me etc.

I don't want to be OTT but as I keep giving it more thought I feel like that would be my "boundary". I would feel sick and really put off if my DP came home after a night out and tried to cuddle/touch me after having a naked woman grind on him a couple of hours before hand.

AIBU to ask what your opinions are ?

The girl I know who lap danced was kicked out of home at 16, struggled to stay in college and do her A levels. Hated every minute of what she did and was encouraged by people at the club to take drugs and work as an escort. I imagine her story isn't unusual.

My DH doesn't use porn and would walk away from a situation that involved a strip club. He respects women, but he's also not the type of man who would ever have to pay for female attention. Certainly nothing wrong with his sex drive either.

And I can't speak for his friends but his weekends away with them involve running, cycling and camping. Think the Lake District is fairly low on strip clubs.

My DS(23) thinks that anything that exploits women is horrendous. Again, he's not the type of inadequate man who's ever had to pay a girl to take her clothes off for him.

I do find it intriguing how many mumsnetters know women who work in the sex industry and how they all seem to love it. If I didn't know better, I'd think there was a. It of Belle de Jour inspired fantasizing going on...

I think they are grim and would be saddened to think dp would have one.

I don't thin peer pressure really amounts to much when men are older, only on the weak ones.

I'd be fucking horrified if my DP thought for a second that he could be with me but go and get a lap dance. I wouldn't be at all impressed with him going to a strip club at all tbh but it wouldn't be the dealbreaker that a lap dance would be. I agree with a PP that I wouldn't want to be with someone who considered a woman's body to be for sale, whatever the reason.
As a side note, I am always amazed at the amount of people who seem to truly believe that there's no contact between the dancer and the scumbag guy that's bought her time. I've been truly shocked at the extreme level of 'contact' that can and definitely does happen.

I don't like lap dance clubs, they're seedy, creepy and degrading. I wouldn't like DH going to one.

I don't mind porn, as long as it's not an addiction

Bertrand I don't know if you were insinuating that I don't actually know girls in this industry, but I do, I'm a pole dancer (not a stripper myself) so that's why I've met so many. Judge away

Ethylred I'm 'taken aback' that you would find it boring to know whether or not your husband would get a lap dance. I value my husband's honesty and I love learning new things about him every day.

". I value my husband's honesty and I love learning new things about him every day"

So do I. However, finding out that he's the sort of person who thinks women can be bought and sold like any other commodity would be a surprise too far.

Bertrand I totally agree - I just meant that I find it weird that anyone would think it was 'boring' to know that kind of thing before choosing to marry someone!

TBH I think it's hypocritical to say you hate strip clubs but watch porn together. Personally I have more issues with porn as there is far more coercion involved, I've previously known a stripper and it was all about the money. Porn is a different kettle of fish and often leads to major issues in a relationship. A one off trip to a strip club for a stag do isn't as bad as regularly watching porn IMO. They can't touch the strippers so they might be better off in there than in a seedy nightclub where anything goes.

The thing is we do actually know that there are some vile aspects to the sex industry. We know that workers (female and male) are sometimes wholly taken advantage of, forced into and worse. However there are some people like Shh and myself who actively enjoy/enjoyed our jobs and everything that went with it. We're like the 'inconvenient truth' for people who oppose the industry as a whole.

And Bertrand there are a lot of escorts/strippers/lap dancers/porn actresses out there, it makes sense that some women on here would know some and it would also make sense that they are the one's who enjoy their job. People
Are hardly going to go onto a website and tell the world their friend has been trafficked or abused are they?

You wouldn't find me within 10 ft of a man who was comfortable with any of the scenarios you describe.

Naked rubbing etc etc is cheating. Paying someone to do it is the purchasing of their consent. "Buying" a stripper i.e. a fellow human being for a mate and then gathering round to laugh is the epitome of a misogynist/dick head/absolute arsehole.

Just a few posts into the thread and @Peachgreen more or less summed up my reaction to this thread:

I continue to be baffled by the amount of crap women seem to believe they have to put up with, as if porn and strippers and lap-dancers are some kind of basic human right for men. Ridiculous.

Ridiculous indeed, couldn't agree more with this statement.

I think it is wrong for men to pay women for sexual consent.
I would not be with a man who went to strip clubs so lap dances wouldn't happen either.
A man who buys any sexual services is a man who sees women as objects.

"We're like the 'inconvenient truth' for people who oppose the industry as a whole"
Actually, I think of it the other way round. The exploited, trafficked. damaged women are the "inconvenient truth" for people who seek to present the sex industry as an empowering career for women. And the ethical question about men buying consent is another "inconvenient truth" the apologists like to avoid.

I was talking about on here. As soon as anything is posted about the industry people are very quick to say we are all addicts/victims who are coerced/forced into it. This is simply not true. When we point this out people patronisingly say we are deluded or lying and "feel sorry" for us.

"Empowering" is a cliche and certainly not one I've used. I enjoyed it, the hours were good and the money was great, I didn't find it any more or less empowering than the career I have now.

And women buy consent too.

I'm taken aback, always, by all these posters who claim to know exactly what their husbands think about everything. How boring. DH is still such a mystery that I've no idea what he'd get up to in such louche circumstances.

Are you not friends? I feel like I can predict DH's reactions with the same accuracy as those of my closest friend - obviously people can still surprise you but after years of such mental intimacy there are very few topics on which I have 'no idea' of his thoughts. I don't think that's boring, I think it's the basis of an actual relationship.

I'm also unconvinced but the 'it's the ones you'd never suspect' claims. I organised a stag do for a friend and three out of about fifteen of the men tried to insist that it should include a stripper. They were exactly the sleazy, slightly sad cases you'd have expected to push for it. Similarly, DH recently went on a stag do where there was a split between the organisers on whether or not to go to a strip club. Again, I could have told you in advance which of them would think what - again, it was the 'type' (sleazy, big jobs and bigger insecurities) that you would expect.

I think that, within the limits of the law, it's up to the individual to decide what they find morally acceptable.

"When we point this out people patronisingly say we are deluded or lying and "feel sorry" for us"

I don't. I don't actually care why you think in the way you do. The collateral damage to other women in the trade and to society is too great to balance out a few happy hookers.

Of course he'd go along to a strip club if he was on a stag do and everyone was going! You really think your DH will turn around and go home? Like hell.

Yes I do really think that. My husband is a grown adult who grew out of being pressured by his peers years and years ago. He would have no problem telling people it isn't for him and he isn't comfortable with it. I could and have done it myself, so why couldn't a man?

I know, I'm deluded and naive and no doubt my husband is watching porn daily and visiting strip clubs whenever my back is turned. The reality is I married a man with enough self-respect not to lie to me or pretend he has different morals just to keep me happy. I would never pretend I didn't like something and was against it to keep my husband happy. I just wouldn't have married him if our morals didn't match in a way that was important to the other.

Skaross
What percentage of the custom are women?
And what percentage of women take up a private naked lap dance?
And what percent women offer more money for extra sexual services?

I ignored the "and women buy consent too". Because in the context of discussing the sex industry it is a ridiculous thing to say.

"Of course he'd go along to a strip club if he was on a stag do and everyone was going! You really think your DH will turn around and go home? Like hell."

Yes I do think that. And yes he has. Well, he didn't come home. He and about half the group went to the pub instead.

. My BF says on his rugby team about 5 guys regularly cheat on their wives (some with 3 kids) and the wives have no idea.

I am sure it happens a lot. I happen to think everyone is capable of cheating in the wrong circumstances. I wouldn't trust anyone 100% not to cheat but I trust my husband more than I could trust anyone else and I would be shocked to my core if he ever cheated on me.

However, I know him well enough to know that he isn't out there in strip clubs and he isn't watching porn. I have no doubt that the people out there serial cheating on their wives and visiting strip clubs behind their back show a lack of respect for women in their daily lives.

I know my husband has too much respect for women to view them as being on sale. I know he would be deeply uncomfortable in that setting. I also know from countless conversations that he finds it all seedy and sad. And frankly he isn't that good an actor to put on that show for 11 years.

So yes, I can say with 100 certainty he isn't doing any such thing behind my back.