To ask for your opinions on lap dances?

[snoopypoodle]

Just something I've been thinking about recently that's been brought on about a MNs DH watching porn and how it broke her boundaries.
BTW this is about men in relationships!!! IDRC what people do when they're single.

I don't mind porn. I don't encourage or approve much of men going to strip clubs but I wouldn't blow my top over it. However I do have quite specific views on lap dances.

I think there's not too much harm in going to a strip club and having a look if there's a group of lads on a stag do etc once in a blue moon (I wouldn't mind watching a male stripper on a hen do).
But the idea of actually paying for a girl to dance on your lap wiggle and grind her (probably naked or v.exposed) bits against you is a completely different matter.
You wouldn't let a strange woman you don't know come up to you and do that in a bar on a night out so why would you pay for it in a strip club?

The more I think about it the more I would see it as cheating if my DP did this. We've talked about it in the past as I know when he was single he did it with his friends etc and he said he doesn't really see the harm in it ie "it's just a bit of fun" . But he has admitted that I'm probably right in saying that he most likely would not like for me to have a naked man wave his penis in my face and grind on me etc.

I don't want to be OTT but as I keep giving it more thought I feel like that would be my "boundary". I would feel sick and really put off if my DP came home after a night out and tried to cuddle/touch me after having a naked woman grind on him a couple of hours before hand.

AIBU to ask what your opinions are ?

[deffoncforthis]

Deffon at least you said probably, somebody berated another pp for even suggesting her partner doesn't watch it. My partner doesn't and hasn't in the two years we've been together

I think the number of men who don't use porn when they do their thing, is probably a bit like the number of women who have had fewer than 4 sexual partners before meeting any given BF/DH. There will certainly be some times where it is the truth.

[DeleteOrDecay]

I wouldn't be ok with my dp even setting foot in a strip club, let alone have a lap dance. Nor would I be interested in a male stripper at a hen do. Porn is a no in our relationship too.

I don't much care for paying someone to perform sexual things for/to me and I don't think much of those who do pay/use these 'services'. I find these people pretty sad and pathetic actually. Like people who buy those creepy robotic sex dolls.

[NoLoveofMine]

Porn also bothers me a great deal and the degradation of women which is commonplace in so much of it is very worrying, especially with it being viewed by so many from such a young age. I think it's all part of the same culture though - one in which women and girls are seen to exist for the sexual gratification of men and boys.

[EthelsDisco]

'They might make a free choice but other women and girls don't have any choice in the culture that feeds into'
Yes and I agree with that, but the whole commodity thing applies to lots of things, so anyone in employment is viewed as one.

Porn bothers me more. people have to actively seek out and pay for Lapdancers or strippers and that may deter some. I loathe the free readily available porn online and think it should have to be signed up and paid for. Of course that wont stop people but it is just far too easy to access.

[NoLoveofMine]

They might make a free choice but other women and girls don't have any choice in the culture that feeds into. I'm sure the women who work at the lap dancing club near my school chose to do so but the pupils didn't choose to have this message about our worth and how clubs like it help encourage boys to see us thrust upon us. We have no choice in being objectified and seen as existing for the gratification of boys and men.

[EthelsDisco]

'If someone has freely chosen to do something in exchange for money, be it playing football, working in a shop or stripping, then they have made that choice and they are free to do so. Who am i to stop someone doing something of their own free will?'
Yes I agree. a 'commodity; applies to anybody who gets paid for what they do. Consent is the issue, not if they are a 'commodity'.

I would find anyone who went to see strippers or have a lap dance just a bit neanderthal tbh. Not someone who I'd want to be with.

[BertrandRussell]

And I am quite happy to agree that men should not be treated as commodities either.

[BertrandRussell]

"I think we need to look at how we can stop the abuse, trafficking and coercion and monitor the industry better"

OK. How?

[Skarossinkplunger]

And while it's true that men are not abused and trafficked into the sex industry. They are still bought in the same way women are and therefore treated as commodities too. If you feel that the buying and selling of a human is wrong then it's wrong regardless of gender. The fact that there are not as many male strip clubs does not change that and it should not be viewed any less acceptable because of the Chippendales or Magic Mike.

[birdsdestiny]

To be honest I would think a man who did this was just not very bright. To not even have an understanding of the stats on child abuse, trafficking etc and the fact that guess what it's impossible to tell the difference between a happy escort/ dancer and those who are forced into the profession.

[Skarossinkplunger]

I think we need to look at how we can stop the abuse, trafficking and coercion and monitor the industry better rather than stopping the women who choose to do a perfectly legal job that fits their requirements.

[araiwa]

I think anyone doing any job is a commodity at that time. Wayne rooney is a football playing commodity, a retail worker is a commodity, a stripper is a commodity.

If someone has freely chosen to do something in exchange for money, be it playing football, working in a shop or stripping, then they have made that choice and they are free to do so. Who am i to stop someone doing something of their own free will?

[BertrandRussell]

So men don't have a moral or ethical responsibility?

[snoopypoodle]

araiwa I don't know where to start in terms of your pattern of thought... So you think a person doing a certain job is not a person anymore just a commodity?

But also do you think you can actually tell who chose the job and who was forced into it there and then?

[NoLoveofMine]

If a man is able to view one woman as a commodity he is also able to view other women as such and is contributing a society where all women (and girls) are seen in this way and objectified.

[araiwa]

If a woman has chosen to market herself as a commodity of dancing or sex then yes, i feel its ok for men to treat them as such.

[NoLoveofMine]

I've seen men strip and I certainly don't view all men as commodities to be bought and sold.

It's completely different. There aren't clubs in every city in countries across the west (and beyond) where women can just drop in during a night out and watch men strip. Men have this ability and know of these widespread clubs from a young age (which has a detrimental effect on how boys view girls as the existence of these clubs feeds into a view that women exist for the entertainment of men). They also exclude women and hold women back - for example workplaces which have events in them or do after work bonding in them. There is such a club moments from my school and it has angered me and many other pupils for many years, it's very unpleasant and a regular reminder of how women and girls are always ultimately seen by society. Commodities and there for our bodies.

[snoopypoodle]

I'm inclined to agree with what MyBread said.

But also interestingly I have recently watched a documentary about sex workers and the stories of women from impoverished countries or very poor backgrounds who get trafficked abroad under the pretence of jobs (cleaning/babysitting etc) to then be sold into brothels and strip clubs.
What's terrifying is they are so scared, beaten into submission or manipulated that she would never show that she is not willing to be there/lap dance/prostitute herself.
A lot of them have young children at home and their pimps are fully aware of them. A part of it was filmed in the UK and a girl who was trafficked talked about how when she was first brought over everyone wanted to try "the new girl" and how they paid for extras and it made me feel sick.

I think it's sick how innocent women get trafficked everyday to supply the demand of men - and let's face it is all about the demand of men, I can't remember ever hearing about men being trafficked and abused to satisfy the sexual needs of women.

[MyBreadIsEggy]

I have no issue with strip clubs - I've been to quite a few myself (cheap drinks, had friends working there, ladies night etc).
I dont like the idea of lap dances though. Purely because the women who choose to work in strip clubs (a few of my friends included) are there to just put on a show when it comes to dancing on the poles/podiums. When lap dances come into the equation they are then become a commodity to be bought and sold which is very different IMO

[Nancy91]

I do still think the amount of assaults would rise if the men that use prostitutes could no longer do so. When the legal brothels were closed down in Queensland, rape offenses rose by 149% there are other examples out there of this happening. Have you suddenly developed a very high opinion of the type of man who uses these services? Many turn to prostitutes because they aren't getting enough sex at home, you must know this if you have been a prostitute. It shows the attitude they have towards sex, they act as if they can't cope without it.

I don't have a low opinion of men in general, they make up a huge portion of my friends and relatives and I'm engaged to a really lovely one.

However, I do feel that this thread has gone off on a tangent. It's about lap dances, which I just can't get worked up about. I've seen men strip and I certainly don't view all men as commodities to be bought and sold.

[BertrandRussell]

"I have no issue with women choosing to dance for or have sex with men for money. Correct"

That does not answe the question I asked. I asked whether you were OK with men regarding women as commodities to be bought and sold.

[sharklovers]

There is definitely contact during lap dances in the UK, head to Eastern Europe and there's a lot more. I genuinely know women who would consider it a deal breaker, yet I've seen their husbands drop a grand on private dances in one evening on multiple occasions. I guarantee there are women on here whose husbands have visited a club and told them otherwise.

[Scrumplestiltskin]

sadly I feel there would be a rise in sexual assaults if they could not, as the men that use these services seem to really place a lot of importance on regular sex.

So you think so little of men, that you think if they couldn't see prostitutes, they would rape women? Wow.
Not only do most men who see prostitutes have sexual partners at home, who they have sex with, but endorsing the attitude that men must use a woman's body, willingly or otherwise, is disgusting.
Perhaps without prostitution encouraging that sense of entitlement, men wouldn't think they were entitled to use a woman's body for their sexual pleasure.
I'm stating that she is happy and has the right to talk about her experience without people patronising her by saying they feel sorry for her. It's like people see sex workers as pitiful, lesser people. That's just plain horrible.
Clearly, as I was a prostitute, I don't see them as lesser. But yeah, I do feel sorry to someone who is exposed to that level of disease, risk, and misogyny. I'm allowed to.
Im also frustrated that these 'happy' prostitutes throw the majority of 'unhappy' prostitutes under the bus and minimise those women's suffering, (and the damage to society in general,) in order to benefit themselves

[VestalVirgin]

I would ask some of the PP not to dismiss the very idea of their DH using prostitues because they are too 'classy' to use them. Sometimes these sort of statements have s way of coming back to bite you.

Yeah, "classy" is not exactly something that makes men not use prostitutes.

As the lonely man you met proves, there are men who don't do this, but they're rare. (As proven by his friends)

Saying that he is against men regarding women as commodities is somewhat of a more useful indicator. (But of course men can lie.)

[araiwa]

I have no issue with women choosing to dance for or have sex with men for money. Correct