Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 10 11

Original poster

To wonder when this became 'non binary'

268 replies

Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 14:40

Or pansgender/grey gender/non binary etc?
I was chatting to a vague work colleague - works in a different site 50 miles away.
she believes she is non binary,
This is because she does not
Wear dresses, skirts, heels, makeup.
Prefers hoodies and jeans and trainers.
Enjoys riding a motorcycle and doing 'outdoorsy' things.
AIBU to wonder when this became any number of 101 labels and not just women doing things they're perfectly entitled to do in their lives?
I'm trying to do some research for a more in depth look at what nonbinary actually is...

OP posts:

DJBaggySmalls · 19/01/2017 14:46

I fit that description of non binary, in the same way I fit the label 'cis'. I think it comes from the need to rigidly compartmentalise and label, it gives people a feeling of control.
The problem is they dont know the difference between self control, being in control, and being controlling.

AyeAmSpartacus · 19/01/2017 14:49

About half the women I know are non-binary. And they don't even know it.

I should tell them so they can capitalise on their special snowflake status.

Floggingmolly · 19/01/2017 14:50

I've no idea what it is, but refusing to conform to a 1950's idea of how women look and act is not it.
Everyone's jumping on this fucking bandwagon lately
We're all different, nobody else really cares that you don't wear lipstick and you think this makes you a whole different species gender.

Original poster

Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 14:52

I'm non binary too by the looks of it...
Do I get a badge?
All I can find on it is basically
''I like to do stereotypical male things and stereotypical female things''Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places - blogs,mostly.
Seems quite popular though

OP posts:

PuntCuffin · 19/01/2017 14:53

I think your colleague has misunderstood. That, or I have. To me, these terms all refer to gender and sexual orientation. She appears to be referring to clothes and hobbies!
Being able to choose to dress as she likes and do whatever activity she wants doesn't somehow makes her more male or less female.

Pineappletastic · 19/01/2017 14:53

I think it makes more 'sense' to most people when it's a male-bodied individual who wants to wear dresses and make up an knit scarves, but doesn't want to 'be a woman'?

I don't get make up and heels, not that I can't be bothered or don't want to. I genuinely do not understand why you would do that to yourself. When women say that trans women aren't women because they haven't experienced x, y and z, often I haven't experienced y or z either. It does make me wonder if I count as a woman.

coldcanary · 19/01/2017 14:53

Take out motorcycling and put in gaming and you would be describing my older DD as well - she's not non binary, she's just an 11 year old girl doing what she does.
I'm not going to put this well but here goes-
We seem to be going backwards with gender roles, as though you can only be truly female if you're into pink, sparkly traditionally feminine interests and clothes. If you don't fit that pattern then somebody somewhere has to pigeonhole you as something else. It doesn't seem to fit with any reality that I know where people are just people with individual tastes.

FlyingElbows · 19/01/2017 14:53

Is she 17? For the life of me I'm fucked if I can understand why anyone who's not a teenager would come out with such shite. I understand it from "the kids" (I am a mother of teens) but rational adults? No.

pipsqueak25 · 19/01/2017 14:54

what a load of shite that everyone seems to need a label now, some just need the clarification 'i'm a prat' ! molly well said.

dollydaydream114 · 19/01/2017 14:54

I do think that being non-binary is a perfectly real and a valid thing.

I don't think that just not liking very feminine clothes is what makes someone non-binary, though; it's a lot more complicated than that.

I think your colleague was probably just trying to simplify things for you when she described it. I imagine that inside she has a lot more feelings that are very personal to her, which contribute to her identity, and which she wouldn't want to spend hours explaining to a casual acquaintance.

Ultimately, does it really matter if they feel they're non-binary? It's not actually a problem for anyone else, is it?

Original poster

Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 14:55

Well she has decided she is no longer a she (I asked her what I should call her and she had to go,so I'm sticking with she for now)
She does believe this is her new gender, and the above is why she thinks that.

OP posts:

FlyingElbows · 19/01/2017 14:58

You're absolutely right that we're going back with gender roles and personally I place that right at the feet of 24/7 freely accessible pornography. Teen girls have to be porno perfect or they're not "right". The boys have to be uber man (hilariously imported from gay porn). Anyone who doesn't fit those rigid boxes is some weird definition or other rather than just being a person. The poor kids don't know which way's up.

RunWalkCrawlbutMove · 19/01/2017 14:58

Being and feeling non-binary is so much more than that I thought? It is feeling as though you aren't either gender not just not fitting a stereotype. That was my understanding anyway. Certainly the trans people I know didn't reassign because they didn't fit s stereotype - it was far larger than that - an inherent feeling of wrongness.

Maybe your friend doesn't understand. Is she one of those people who say they are allergic to foods when they aren't
You are being disingenuous to assume all non-binary individuals feel in the same way as your friend and you know it

JaxingJump · 19/01/2017 14:58

People can be whatever they like (or whatever they can't avoid being). It makes no difference to me if there is a label for who they are or not. There are an equal individual to me.

LunaLoveg00d · 19/01/2017 15:00

I like baking and knitting. But I don't wear make up, love my hoodies and have short hair.

Does that make me non-binary too?

It's all a load of guff, nobody CARES if men want to crochet and women want to go train spotting. Labelling yourself, and telling everyone is just attention seeking. Just get on with your life.

Original poster

Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 15:03

It would be mean of me to judge simply off of one persons experience, hence why I am researching and finding out what I can and having a discussion on a very large forum that discusses a very large variation of topics.
RunWalkCrawlbutMove
Not sure why I got a biscuit but have it back
Eat the entire barrel while you think of a better way to show you're pissed off at me.

OP posts:

QueenOfTheWhiteWalkers · 19/01/2017 15:05

Oh aye it's all getting a bit ridiculous now isn't it? FFS! She's described me, both my dds, my mother and my sister! We're all just female thanks!

JaxingJump · 19/01/2017 15:07

Actually I think for the individual being able to label themselves can be important. My point is to the rest of us it should matter or cause judgement.

JaxingJump · 19/01/2017 15:07

Shouldn't matter!!

Bambambini · 19/01/2017 15:09

Itvis guff - how can it even be defined or measured. Whst happend to just bring a Goth or whatever tribe you wanted to be part of.

BarbaraofSeville · 19/01/2017 15:09

So your colleague doesn't want to be referred to as she and bases this on preferring casual clothes and outdoor activities rather than clothes, make up and heels?

Is this different or the same as being trans and identifying as a man/woman? Which bathroom, changing rooms etc does she want to use?

i do find it strange that trans women usually seem to identify as a very girly, glamous type of woman. Where are the trans women who still wear trousers and play football? Or is 'identifying as a woman' equating to wanting to wear heels and make up?

Why can't it be, not that it matters, that she is a woman that likes the things you mention? Just because some pastimes and ways of dressing are more popular amongst either men or women, doesn't necessarily mean that people who like those things have to identify as a particular gender, does it? Correlation is not causation.

I rarely wear dresses, heels or make up, prefer hiking in the country to traipsing round the shops and participate in an activity that is vastly more popular with men than women but I don't go round telling people that I identify as a man. Or should I?

user1483804139 · 19/01/2017 15:12

Pfft non binary. If you've got a vagina you have a female body. If you have a penis you have a male body. Non binary indeed.

Floggingmolly · 19/01/2017 15:13

But the people labelling themselves are attributing an importance to it that it simply doesn't have for anybody else...
It absolutely is attention seeking.
Just as much as shouting how much you earn from the rooftops. Not everyone gives a shite needs to know.

MrsJayy · 19/01/2017 15:14

It's just self absorbed nonsense imo and I cba with it lots,of teen girls are identifying as non binary they stick boys jeans on and have short hair I guess they like the label. It seems to be a fashion trend like new romantics,or whatever just let your friend get on with it. I guess I'm non binary because I don't wear skirts

Original poster

Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 15:15

I also think its quite damaging for the ongoing feminist movement if we have to start sticking labels on ourselves if we just don't want to be pink and fluffy and we want to ride motorbikes or spend a few hours playing GTA or something.

OP posts:

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 10 11