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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder when this became 'non binary'

268 replies

Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 14:40

Or pansgender/grey gender/non binary etc?
I was chatting to a vague work colleague - works in a different site 50 miles away.
she believes she is non binary,
This is because she does not
Wear dresses, skirts, heels, makeup.
Prefers hoodies and jeans and trainers.
Enjoys riding a motorcycle and doing 'outdoorsy' things.
AIBU to wonder when this became any number of 101 labels and not just women doing things they're perfectly entitled to do in their lives?
I'm trying to do some research for a more in depth look at what nonbinary actually is...

OP posts:
NothingIsOK · 19/01/2017 15:15

Your friend is being a twat and conflating gender non conforming with non binary gender. I find this trend really fucking annoying and a very backwards step for gender equality. It's also massively unhelpful and frustrating for anyone who is actually non binary wrt their gender.

PovertyJetset · 19/01/2017 15:18

Is it just me or are these non binary terms and what it means to be trans harking back to rigid sexist stereotypes?

Ffs. I am a woman with a vulva and an interest in travel, reading, snowboarding, building dens, camping and cooking.

Labels are so LIMITING

Katy07 · 19/01/2017 15:19

Tell her that I'm like that and I'm gay so her new label is officially "lesbian" - I'm sure she'll be chuffed Grin
Tell her I'm also single.... Wink

Original poster
Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 15:19

I openly admit I have very little of an idea about what non binary is. What I have found so far alludes to ''I like both male things and female things so I'm nonbinary'' Or ''I'm a man and I like to wear dresses but I'm not a woman so I'm nonbinary''
I've also found this photo which shows 33 different genders...
I am slightly confused.
Incidentally I can't find non binary on this one Hmm that said, I don't have my glasses on. So I might've missed it.

To wonder when this became 'non binary'
OP posts:
Original poster
Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 15:21

Non binary is under gender queer, sorry Blush Blush

OP posts:
Camomila · 19/01/2017 15:21

Is there a label for people who believe gender is a social construct? If so I'm one of them.

BreezyThursday · 19/01/2017 15:22

I can't help thinking that all of these words make the situation more complicated: Each of us is biologically male or female (with a small minority of genuine exceptions) which generally defines what our bodies look like and whether or not we can theoretically have children.

What society needs to embrace is that the male/female man/woman shouldn't mean anything with regard to how we dress, what we like, what job we do or who we love.

pipsqueak25 · 19/01/2017 15:25

biologically and medically 99.9 % of the population are born male or female, 'born into the wrong gender' i get, the rest need to get the fuck over themselves.

pipsqueak25 · 19/01/2017 15:27

cock this chart is such a load of bollocks, right, there i've said it ! Angry

Bigbiscuits · 19/01/2017 15:28

Is this just what we used to call "androgynous" in the 1980s? !

BarbaraofSeville · 19/01/2017 15:32

Cocklodger apparently there are either 58 or 71 different genders that you can identify yourself as on Facebook, according to various internet sites.

What I have difficulty with is how easy it apparently is for people to simply declare that they identify as the other gender and expect access to single sex spaces, the prime example being men in women's toilets, changing rooms, prisons etc as many women would find this intimidating and there would be a huge temptation for violent male offenders to claim that they identify as a woman if it would gain them access to these places. Surely if someone wanted to officially identify as a woman, they would need to be receiving hormone treatment and undergone a more official legal procedure than simply deciding that they identified as a woman?

There would also be difficulties for Muslim women, who may find their lifestyle severely curbed if they were unable to go out shopping, swimming and other activities if there was a risk that there would be people that look like men present in previously female only spaces.

Original poster
Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 15:33

That was my initial reaction too Pig
I'm trying to be more open minded and understanding - I don't understand it, despite my best efforts.
If someone can explain it i'm all ears though...

OP posts:
CanadianJohn · 19/01/2017 15:33

I've given up trying to keep up. My wife (female, I believe), never wears skirts/dresses. I'm not sure if she even owns a skirt. She sometimes puts a bit of lipstick on. She's a good cook, but doesn't know which end of a hammer is which.

I (male) do the ironing (what there is) and the sewing (what there is). I don't wear lipstick. I'm a terrible cook, but have five hammers.

I'm not sure what pigeonholes we'd be put into.

MrsJayy · 19/01/2017 15:33

big biscuits that's the word I was looking for even my autocorrect had no clue whay I was trying to spell Blush yea I think it is that.

Lemon12345 · 19/01/2017 15:35

Camomila I'm with you!

DH and I were having this conversation the other day. He was arguing there are only 2 genders, I was arguing it's all nonsense that doesn't have any scientific backing and therefore anyone can claim to be any 'gender' they want. I myself then decided I would be 'rainbow' as we passed a shop with a rainbow in the window. Why the hell not?!?!

Our sex is designated by a doctor at birth based on the appearance of our genitals. This informs them what role they take in creating offspring. Of course like with anything these things aren't 100%, but they are bloody close.
I think if everyone dropped all the gender stereotypes then gender would be dropped. No reason someone needs a penis to drive a truck or a vagina to play with dolls.

Original poster
Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 15:35

I have difficulties with that too Barbara However I try to respectful to those that feel they are in the wrong body, Transitioning isn't instantaneous. I'm aware people will take advantage of it though.

OP posts:
BarbaraofSeville · 19/01/2017 15:35

What society needs to embrace is that the male/female man/woman shouldn't mean anything with regard to how we dress, what we like, what job we do or who we love

^This. If this is really all this gender queer thing is all about, then yes, men should be able to wear dresses, women not paint their nails, boys wear fairy wings or girls play with train sets or whatever without being judged that it is not stereotypical behaviour of their sex.

ZippyNeedsFeeding · 19/01/2017 15:36

I'm perfectly happy for people to identify as hatstands if that makes them happy. Or change their gender identification every second Thursday. Just please, can I be excused from caring?
If people are being stopped from going about their normal, lawful business or harmed or discriminated against, then it needs to be stopped, obviously. But otherwise, it isn't really relevant, surely? Especially in a work setting where there are no gender/sex restrictions.
Wouldn't it be so much nicer if we could just all get on with being people?

lovelearning · 19/01/2017 15:36

Well she has decided she is no longer a she

Cocklodger, surely she was joking?

Original poster
Cocklodger · 19/01/2017 15:38

love
she seemed rather serious to me, deadly so in fact. although as explained above I've no idea what to refer to her as.

OP posts:
MrsJayy · 19/01/2017 15:38

Dd had a non binary friend last year at college nice enough girl I met her a few times but God she did go on and on about her ungendered lifestyle (her words) it was just so dull and repetitive

user1471551792 · 19/01/2017 15:39

"Being and feeling non-binary is so much more than that I thought? It is feeling as though you aren't either gender not just not fitting a stereotype."

Gender IS a stereotype. It's an oppressive construct. For her to say she isn't a she is conforming to that stereotype. If she thinks her attire and pursuits make her not female then I'm fucked if I know how that helps anyone. Least of all women.

If she, and anyone else peddling this utter bollocks, just got on with it instead of coming up with yet more tiny boxes of self-identity indulgence then the rest of us, and taking a long look at the MN Feminist boards is recommended, might be able to get on with smashing the stereotypes instead. We should be supporting women to be empowered as women, not some made up fantasy that enables no political or class based discourse.

How grown adults get bamboozled into this backward shit is beyond me. Does the mental gymnastics not wear you out?

MrsJayy · 19/01/2017 15:40

I would just refer to her by name tbh instead of her and she

lovelearning · 19/01/2017 15:42

she seemed rather serious to me, deadly so in fact.

Cocklodger, I would have been unable to contain myself. Grin

slug · 19/01/2017 15:43

Interesting.

So, according to your colleague's line of reasoning, 9-5 on weekdays I am ... I'm not sure what exactly...cis? female? boring hetrosexual conforming woman? And after 5 and on weekends and holidays I'm "non-binary" ?

It's all a bit retro isn't it? I'm sure we have got beyond dresses=girls interesting, well paid stuff motorbikes and outdoors = boys