To wonder when this became 'non binary'

[Cocklodger]

Or pansgender/grey gender/non binary etc?
I was chatting to a vague work colleague - works in a different site 50 miles away.
she believes she is non binary,
This is because she does not
Wear dresses, skirts, heels, makeup.
Prefers hoodies and jeans and trainers.
Enjoys riding a motorcycle and doing 'outdoorsy' things.
AIBU to wonder when this became any number of 101 labels and not just women doing things they're perfectly entitled to do in their lives?
I'm trying to do some research for a more in depth look at what nonbinary actually is...

Because I've asked my friends.
And anyway, gender is cultural whereas sex is biological. But there's research going g on into how hormones affect gender as far as I'm aware.

How the fuck can hormones affect culture?

And anyway, gender is cultural whereas sex is biological.

Exactly!

So what are you talking about?

And if gender is cultural and sex is biological, why are we offering biological and surgical treatments to "treat" so called wrong gender assignment?

Can you not see how this is utterly nonsensical?

But then if gender is purely cultural, the people who are having difficulty in identifying themselves as male or female are surely perpetuating the idea that being male or female (gender) means or expects something particular (as opposed to male or female sex).

But why does a woman in a promotion wearing full makeup and big hair suggest that you're not a real woman if you don't, Lorelei?
Seriously, this would make you think identifying as non binary would be preferable than being expected (by who??) to conform to this "stereotype"?
It's this sort of hysteria that's feeding the whole bloody thing

Rixera I'm tempted to say I'm sorry to be rude. But I don't see why your crap should be pandered to. Take some responsibility for how this incoherence is presenting real issues of safety to the world. In many respects. Overwhelmingly to women and children.

Gender, and how one expresses and experiences it.

Our expressions of it are a cultural thing. In many cultures, 'third gender' or versions of it have been/are currently an accepted 'thing'.
I don't know how hormones affect it. I think it might be to do with how we have various personality traits depending on different hormone levels, which are then considered to be masculine/feminine/whatever, and then we find ourselves aligning internally with one label more than another. I'm not a research scientist so I don't know for sure. I just read a lot.

Jesus.

We are doomed.

I don't know. Im no expert. I just see how much happier my mtf friend is in particular. She was so sad and quiet as a little boy and has come into her own so much more. I don't see that hurting anyone but the suicide attempts certainly did. Shouting 'you are a boy' at someone who doesn't feel like they are isn't going to make someone better, just like shouting 'you are straight' at a gay man never did back when that was acceptable.

I started seeing it used in that way on tumblr maybe six, seven years ago, mostly by US teens. I haven't met anyone using in IRL though, beyond possibly at my student's union. TBH, unless I want to date a person, I'm not sure why I would be interested in how they identify.

It's all just ridiculous. Your colleague happens to be a woman who prefers to wear trousers and ride bikes. She is still female.

I am female, I am straight. I rarely wear makeup, I love painting my nails. I wear trousers all the time because I hate skirts and high heels, and I love jumpers, jeans and trainers. I am still female!

I am crap at housework, I am also crap at DIY.

Why the hell do people need to label themselves as something else, rather than just being a person who likes what they like!

It is total stereotyping to say that you are only a woman if you wear high heels and makeup. The world seems to be going backwards to me. Thankfully we live in a very rural area where people have better things to do than worry about all this stuff .

Regarding the sports promo - i was gobsmscked at a billboard on holiday advertising a local gym/sports club with a model in sports gear, heavy make up fucking HIGH HEELS!

Sorry, but how can hormones (biological) affect gender (cultural)? I'm feeling quite dumb here, because that just doesn't make any sense.

Flogging "But why does a woman in a promotion wearing full makeup and big hair suggest that you're not a real woman if you don't, Lorelei?"

it doesn't
it's just the idea that a woman decked out in running gear needs to have all that added. This company didn't used to do pics like that. I wouldn't have a comment to make if it was a company selling fashionwear but it's a cheap cheerful exercise wear place.

I see it as part of a building thing that women are so rarely portrayed sans make up and jewellery. okay, I'm not a consumer of mass media, but I would imagine that my particular echo chamber would be even less likely to show them made up to the nines than the rest of the world.

Not a clue, I'm not the researcher :)
I just read that there is a possible link which is being researched.

It's all getting so confusing. Following the thread on Girl Guides last week, I emailed GGUK and apparently we have become an organisation based on gender, not sex, without the members being aware of the switch. As a leader, I have to promote getting rid of societal gender stereotypes whilst simultaneously supporting self-identification over biology. I cannot see that it is possible!

Two snippets from their email in response to my query:
'Girlguiding is committed to ensuring that girls and young women are given a space to challenge gender stereotypes. As you have identified in your email, this is something that our members value about Girlguiding.
When we use the term ‘gender identity’ in guiding we are referring to a person’s inner sense of being a girl or a woman. This is separate to the biological definition of sex – being male or female – and does not refer to the societal stereotypes that you have raised in your email.'

and

'Girlguiding is an organisation for all girls and young women, based on this sense of gender identity.
This is part of our charitable aims, as set out in our Royal Charter (the document that governs Girlguiding).'

ahhh, all these lovely new labels.

What has happen to "androgynous" and "gamine" btw? Never hear those anymore. That was the fashion in the 80s

I want my own label.

I like fashion, make up, baking and crafts, a nice home and I work in a Primary school. I am also a dab hand at most DIY (but not electrics) do all the 'heavy' gardening and enjoy a WWII documentary now and again.

I am Supra-female - above and beyond the notional constraints of gender stereotypes.

So ner.

I have days where I feel very 'girly', I want to wear full make up and dresses and look pretty. Other days I want to wear baggy jeans, hoodies and trainers and find myself even walking differently, like I've had a shot of testosterone that day. It seems to occur to me at different times in my monthly cycle. Perhaps I am non binary or whatever, some days I do feel I identify more as a man than a woman, but I am biologically female and have never felt the need to stick some new label on myself to fit in anywhere. I am what I am, my gender is female. I'm utterly confused by these new terms, I understand trans, bi, gay, straight etc but now we can't refer to someone as he or she to risk causing offense? It's bloody hard work!

No.

You don't get to play the homophobic card.
Or reducing the matter to sad little boys who want to kill themselves and therefore women and girls are mean and hateful and bigoted if they want their safe spaces and want the actual facts of science and biology and the statistics of male violence and male sexual abuse and how it doesn't make a statistical difference if a male calls himself a transwoman. You don't get to use it to erase language that woman have fought and died for under systematic oppression. Or to reduce us to menstruate or womb carriers or non - men. Or that vaginas are incidental despite rape and FRI and sex trafficking. Or that you'd be hard pressed to find any woman who hasn't felt like she was "born in the wrong" body when we are constantly told that they're too fat or too hairy or not bikini ready or Christmas party ready. Or that lesbians are bigoted scum because they don't want to have sex with "chicks with dicks". Or that we should conspire with fake pregnancies and miscarriages to make transwomen feel more included.

I could go on.

No. You don't get to do this.

I guess when all the snowflakes have labelled themselves and the new shiny transwomen are busy being uber sexual women us bog standard common uterus owners will still be expected to do all the unpaid care work and low paid work?

FFS I've just started a course in feminist theory and when looking at historical writing, the tutor and several others described the use of 'woman' in early theory as a primitive term and that we should not judge the material poorly based upon its use. This was followed by much murmuring on non-binary.....I don't know how to disagree without being thrown out of the class. How did this happen? I'm sure the period of adjustment to enable women to be equal/have choices shouldn't be erasing their past, therefore erasing the actual problem.

I probably shouldn't have taken it given that the course is provided by a no-platforming institution.

Jesus, the Girl Guides have bought into this nonsense of anyone can have an inner sense of being a girl or woman
Nothing is sacred...

*menstruators
*FGM