To want to be proud to be English, for the English to have their own independent parliament and to stop my nationality from being landed with shit from 100s of years ago?!

[Marmiteandjamislush]

I know I'll get flamed to bugger for this thread, but you what I don't care! I have heard so much stuff about the English everywhere recently, but nobody asks English people how we feel, what we want. Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho, but what we want, as English people. How we want our country to run. We are always lumped into an amorphous lump, which still includes imperialist colonials, which boils my piss because most modern English people had nothing to do with that and no power to stop it. When I think of the Scottish People, I don't think of Robert the Bruce, the IRA when I think about the Irish People, so why are all English people lumped together as racist oppressors, it's vile!

Being English can include anybody who wants to be included, for me it's an attitude and a love for the country, which anyone in the world could have if they wanted.

I am crying typing this. I just feel so frustrated by it all. Anyway flame away.

YANBU to be proud to be English. YANBU to want an independent parliament. YANBU to want people's preconceived ideas about Englishness to be updated. However I don't know anyone who thinks all the English are imperialists.

HTH

It would also be nice to be able to fly the flag of my country without people calling me a racist bnp supporter.
Another proud Englishwoman here :)

I'm Welsh. We are always overlooked, just as you have done here, because our union with England pre-dates Scotland's or Ireland's.

I guess, maybe one reason why England feels like such a 'lump' is that it is such a mix of different backgrounds from the celtic Cornish people to the Viking links in the north east.

The English have for such a long time run the whole of the UK, by and large so they have had a massive say in how the whole thing is run. I think YABU about that.

I'm fiercely Welsh but, really? You're crying?

Was a bit of an overstatement perhaps BookaBoo, but that's how it feels sometimes. Glad it's not just me Weird It Just feels so good to say how I feel on here.

Yes to weirdcat

Yes I am are I can't tell you how uptight I feel inside, it's like a pressure valve I think. I didn't overlook the Welsh, just couldn't think of a historical stereotype that's attached. When you say: The English have for such a long time run the whole of the UK, by and large so they have had a massive say in how the whole thing is run. You are wrong. It is a tiny minority of English people who have done that. You openly admit to lumping us together, so I don't think we will agree, but thanks for your thoughts anyway.

More to the point, you like marmite & jam.

Together?

Do something about it then!

What Rita?

Yes, I do Henrietta, blame my pregnancies!

Marmite Any chance you could go for a run or something? I too cannot believe you are crying over this. Where have you been made to feel like a racist oppressor? It's a premise I associate with live and online debate in order to point score, but not one I've ever seen expressed person to person as genuine sentiment.

You're crying?

Get a grip!

I didn't openly admit to lumping you together. I said maybe one reason why England feels like such a 'lump'....

You're right that it has been a tiny minority of the English, but for a very long time the ancient indigenous people of the UK had NO say whatsoever, even once electoral reforms started to open the doors.

I'm not quite sure what you want. Even if the English were granted their own independent parliament, it would be run by a tiny minority as that is how politics works.

I'm half English, Half Scottish and I do think that England suffers a lack of a positive identity at times, just as Scotland does. It just depends on your outlook.

Scotland - freedom!!!(), fat bastards or kilt wearing loons.

England - 'this is England' type preconceptions.

Do any of these stereotypes really represent us? No.

Yanbu about wanting England to have a say. It was more succinctly put in another thread about why England should or shouldn't have the right. So there are others thinking the same as you.

For what it's worth I have loved seeing so many British flags waving in Edinburgh and I don't immediately think they are racists!

I'm not weeping wailing crying, it's like frustration crying when you can't express how you feel out loud. Sorry to have offended you all with my spontaneous emotional response (!)

World's tiniest violin, OP

It is a tiny minority of English people who have done that.

White, upperclass men. I was about to say until recently but actually looking at the current government....

I refuse to feel some sort of Colonial guilt for the Empire, oppression of the Irish, slavery, Highland Clearances etc. My family throughout history were agricultural labourers in both the South West and East Anglia. After the Industrial Revolution they became coal miners and railway workers. They were Non-conformists (became Methodists very early on) , and later involved in industrial rights. I want to be able to celebrate that aspect of Englishness but it often feels like there's no space in the current political discourse for me - the female descendant of working people who barely kept body and soul together.

It would be interesting to watch the creation and growth of an English Nationalist movement, demanding it's own devolved parliament and exactly the same powers that Scotland has (today!).
What would happen if all (current!) members of the UK had their own devolved Parliament. Where would Westminster stand?
Unfortunately, I can't see this happening. English gets hijacked in a way Scottish and Welsh and Northern Irish never does. I don't see how we could get over that.
Maybe the nationalist movement could use some old term - weren't we once known as the Aenglish or some such.

It would also be nice to be able to fly the flag of my country without people calling me a racist bnp supporter.

It would and I do... but I think you need to have a few words with the BNP about that - it's their actions that caused the problem.

And I think there are other issues if you are crying over Scotland wanting independence. Both England and Scotland will still love you if they divorce, they will just live in different homes and you can still visit Scotland any time you like or call.

Amazing! May have to try (also pregnant...)

In answer...I'm part English: part Welsh and proud to be British, Welsh & Yorkshire.

England has so many regions that I struggle to see it as one United place, although bizarrely that diversity is what makes me proud to be British!

Struggling to find logic in my stance, but there it is...

I am Welsh but I know that Wales would be in a right state financially if it wasn't' for Westminster and appreciate being British. I wish England was able to celebrate it's nationality in the way the Wales and Scotland do. I hope that Scotland vote no tomorrow.

P.s. Everyone knows that the Welsh just party with booze and welsh cakes all the time. or shag sheep

Would be great to reclaim the flag.

Am also a republican...which probably makes me feel even more alienated from both flag and national anthem.

I take your point about politics , Are, I just feel like the English take more flack for the actions of their political numpties than others do by and large and we as people get the cultural blame for stuff. That's what I don't want anymore.

Thanks Curious, I know my start was a bit rambley but it was an immediate response to today's media sturation

I don;t feel guilt what what previous governments did in my name - I do feel however a sense of responsibility to handle such issues fairly given that I partly live in a privileged affluent country off the back of what they took from other countries who are now not so affluent or privileged.

There is a limit to how far I feel we should be collectively responsible but none-the-less I do feel it.

Letting countries (tenuously within living memory) trample over the rights and steal the assets of other countries then say whilst they are struggling and we are still affluent "sorry not my problem" when we partly got rich off their backs is not on, morally. (not talking about Scotland here btw but colonies).

The problem is that many people today don't accept that we are affluent compared to many of the countries we colonised.