To want to be proud to be English, for the English to have their own independent parliament and to stop my nationality from being landed with shit from 100s of years ago?!

[Marmiteandjamislush]

I know I'll get flamed to bugger for this thread, but you what I don't care! I have heard so much stuff about the English everywhere recently, but nobody asks English people how we feel, what we want. Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho, but what we want, as English people. How we want our country to run. We are always lumped into an amorphous lump, which still includes imperialist colonials, which boils my piss because most modern English people had nothing to do with that and no power to stop it. When I think of the Scottish People, I don't think of Robert the Bruce, the IRA when I think about the Irish People, so why are all English people lumped together as racist oppressors, it's vile!

Being English can include anybody who wants to be included, for me it's an attitude and a love for the country, which anyone in the world could have if they wanted.

I am crying typing this. I just feel so frustrated by it all. Anyway flame away.

Haha jinx Petula

As I said, I'm bemused.

Not the last two points. Anyway, why do my feelings about Janine's post matter so much?! To me, they sounded rude and I said so, it's hard to get true meaning over in writing. I take maybe they weren't meant that way, but that was my response, which is only mine, Can we really drop it now and carry on discussing.

And we are only stuck with Scotland because Queen Liz the first died without kids. So they got to join England by choice and we got landed with them!

I think everybody else had Marmite

Petula, you said:
'the english (and british more generally, but english in particular) have treated lots of nations abominably though'

Abominable treatment did definitely happen, so I agree with you. However, the English were no more involved than any other nation of the British Isles. LOTS of Scots were out in the Empire.

Miggsie no. James I was the next heir. He didn't choose on behalf of the Scottish people to join England, he simply did what heirs do and took his inheritance.

I was responding to this Are

You don't rub me the wrong way at all OP smile.

I'm quite bemused as to why you've lashed out at me so much, but heigh ho.

Anyway, can we please leave it now.

Exactly, Meh, yet the English are always the villains of the piece

I don't think you deserve a flaming for your views OP.

mehsmum that depends on whether you restrict the abominations ot the british empire

the english have treated other areas of the british isles appallingly

Thanks Bowler, to be honest I am surprised there has been none.

Exactly Petula and continued to do so well into the last century, as stated in my earlier post about the Welsh language. Also, the appalling abuses which happened prior to the unification of the British Isles. How far back into history should this extend and who draws a then arbitrary line?

The English, don't exist in the way you're talking about Petula, you mean Some politicians, who happen to have been English have treated other areas of the british isles appallingly. We are not an amorphous group, no nationality is made of people who are all the same!

I'm really enjoying this thread btw, all!

i have already acknowledged that

but the trickle-down effect has benefited english people more than others all the same

So you want to be proud of the good bits OP but to disown the bad bits? I am mystified. Maybe I've got that wrong.

Can I just say that there are lots of us Cornish that don't consider ourselves English.

i'm not sure why it's so hard for people to acknowledge when they are in a position of privilege which negatively affects other groups. you see this so frequently

indeed pastamancer, and i expect the policies and politicians of westminster feel pretty irrelevant in terms of the needs of cornish people

I sort of get where you are coming from OP although I think you may be overdramatising somewhat.

I am half Irish - my dad is Irish, mum English and I was born and raised in England, but very much as part of the Irish community for my childhood. Many of my friends had two Irish parents.

What really pisses me off is this idea that the Irish/Scots/Welsh are all luffly fluffy people and that the English are all nasty horrible people as a nation. There is always massive romanticisation of the history of both Ireland and Scotland, and this idea that everyone was good and stuck together when the reality was that loads of them sold out for their little bit of power and there was loads of infighting.

Of course there was oppression and there were English/British leaders/landowners who behaved atrociously, and my own family suffered at their hands. I just don't buy the whole 'all Irish and Scottish are just inherently great people who would never shit on or exploit anyone, given the opportunity' type thinking.

My Dad's brother (who also came to England to work and raised his family here) told my dad not to marry my mum because she was English. His son (my cousin) has always 'hated the English', even though he was born and brought up here, before moving to Ireland as an adult. He has been pissing everyone off no end very voiciferous about Scottish Independence on Facebook recently, but I know that he, like however many others, isn't thinking about what is best for Scotland at all, it's all emotional for him.

England might just as well be only the South East for all most seem to care.
I don't actually feel any more than grateful we live somewhere which at least has freedom of speech and some social care however much the Tories are dismantling it.
I think much of England is broken, angry, and deeply xenophobic. It's headed by a corrupt government and an unnecessary royal family. I don't actually feel much pride in it or any really emotional connection with it. If you were to ask me I'd identify myself as European if I could. Of course people can feel as the OP does but I must say I don't share it.

What do you mean? Are of course we should and do acknowledge our country's past but we can't wear a hair shirt for ever and there is so much in the modern time to proud of, so why can we not say we are. Why can we not be proud as modern English people?

Past neither do I.

Who are these "English" of whom you speak?

You know, what with "English" only being a language and all.