To want to be proud to be English, for the English to have their own independent parliament and to stop my nationality from being landed with shit from 100s of years ago?!

[Marmiteandjamislush]

I know I'll get flamed to bugger for this thread, but you what I don't care! I have heard so much stuff about the English everywhere recently, but nobody asks English people how we feel, what we want. Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho, but what we want, as English people. How we want our country to run. We are always lumped into an amorphous lump, which still includes imperialist colonials, which boils my piss because most modern English people had nothing to do with that and no power to stop it. When I think of the Scottish People, I don't think of Robert the Bruce, the IRA when I think about the Irish People, so why are all English people lumped together as racist oppressors, it's vile!

Being English can include anybody who wants to be included, for me it's an attitude and a love for the country, which anyone in the world could have if they wanted.

I am crying typing this. I just feel so frustrated by it all. Anyway flame away.

Where did I say that Grockle? What else should I do? Come on, tell me. I guess I should run for office whilst working 2 jobs, raising my kids, keeping my marriage health and dealing with exrended family. Dead privileged me. Which party offers me, what the Scots have been offered. UKIP, no, racist, BNP, no, labour no, Tories, no. Dying for some suggestions

don't wales and N ireland get a say whether england goes it alone? seems rather hypocritical otherwise

What do you want to come out of this thread?.

Do you want people to agree with you or are you just 'raging?'.

Thanks Blistory, shall we have a diplomatic and ?

Petula, why? They didn't get a say about Scotland.

I just want to be heard Mrs and see if others feel the same, was borne out of frustration and media saturation, felt like being talked at rather than to. Was just wanting my say.

Again, OP, the Scots weren't offered - they campaigned long and hard for their gains.

Maybe your anger should be directed at those in England who aren't representing your views.

Wales is a separate country and many in NI widh for unified Ireland so they should have their own rule too.

because if you're complaining that england got no say in the scotland independence vote, then you can't say that wales and northern ireland should get no say in an england independence vote

Maybe you're right Blist, but there is noone doing this without a racist angle coming with it. I don't know what to do.

I agree. My DH has a Scottish surname. Because one of his ancestors was owned by a Scottish man- in fact, many of his ancestors were. I'm not English or a British (Guatemalan and proud!) but I think it's very obvious to any outsider. I now live in Scotland and it might be from an unknowing outsider perspective, but England has the most people- ffs, London has more people than Scotland alone, nevermind and NI and Wales. I would find it crazy if England wasn't the most represented and the 'default'.

Let's not pretend it's only the English colonising places. Scotland was very much a part of the British Empire's colonisation, don't know about Wales and Ireland (or NI).

I didn't complain about no say Petula, see 'Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho.'

Minority pride is about being proud of achievements and just living in spite of being a power minority. That's why there is a massive difference between Latin@ Pride and White Pride or between Lakota Pride events and US Pride events on Lakota lands.

England can't be independent of Scotland because England is the colonizing nation. That would be like 1920s England saying it wants to be independent of India or current England saying it wanted to be independent of the Falklands or the US and Canada saying they wanted to be independent of the Ojibwe. The structure of the Union is England as the power majority (and most of the agreements of it have been broken by the England without punitive measure being taken). England could vote to give Scotland independence but it can't be independent of Scotland and it is a very different vote for choosing independence for oneself and choosing to give up power over another.

I still don't get the being proud thing. Being happy is one thing but proud? Of what exactly? I mean, we don't want to lump English all together for responsibility or recognition on the bad things even when it benefits and is generally supported by England but we can lump all good English things together as something all English people can be proud of? Makes about as much sense as US pride at all, I guess, not that that makes sense to me either.

fair enough, apologies in that case

You don't feel pride, lots do. ce cera. See this (again)

I thought the OP had done that. She wants to embrace an identity which includes BUT IS ABOUT MORE THAN just that. Although that might be me wrongly trying to speak for her.

You are not Surely, thank God and all his angels for your post. smile Clarity.

Thanks Petula. appreciate that.

England isn't the colonising nation. Act of Union, blah blah blah. Scotland got the shitty end of the stick many times, but I'm sure if you lived in a London slum or Newcastle or whatever, it wouldn't be as noticeable. Scotland has had more power, more privilige and more protection than most, pretty much all, countries in the world. As has Wales. England, too, but equally, it bore the brunt of wars in some ways. England had had it good, but so has the rest of the UK.

Your post answered some of my questions about what would happen if England did declare independence. Thank you TheSpork

Good post Chapina

Marmite, you need to ignore the racists and channel your anger constructively.

Times are changing and none of us know what lies ahead but England also has an opportunity to take a stand and decide what direction it wants to move in, in terms of social, economic policy. Your vote counts so use it. Your MP exists to represent your views so use them. Use social media to have your say. People will listen and join with you if you're fair and reasoned.

I genuinely hope that all the nations of the UK will benefit directly or indirectly from the outcome of the referendum but if nothing else, use the momentum that has gathered to speak out and state your case. That's all any of us can do.

I will do that Blist, thanks

Hi all, thanks for the reports. We haven't seen anything that breaks our guidelines, so do continue enjoying your conversation.

So if England did declare independence would they keep the pound, the Bank of England, the infrastructure that is in place for running the country like embassies etc and say to Wales and N. Ireland, sort yourselves out, we're off?

Or would they, by seeking independence for themselves need to either maintain some sort of union or rebuild from scratch?

If it was the former, England seems to have an unfair advantage over the other nations in declaring independence.

Not that these factors should influence whether or not England should have it's independence, I'm just curious.

MNHQ, could you please PM re my concerns about attribution and explain the logic of troll hunting removal of posts cos I don't understand and am very concerned about the potential effects of certain comments if attributed to me. Thanks.

Good Questions Legion, may be gradual devolution but I'm not sure.