To want to be proud to be English, for the English to have their own independent parliament and to stop my nationality from being landed with shit from 100s of years ago?!

[Marmiteandjamislush]

I know I'll get flamed to bugger for this thread, but you what I don't care! I have heard so much stuff about the English everywhere recently, but nobody asks English people how we feel, what we want. Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho, but what we want, as English people. How we want our country to run. We are always lumped into an amorphous lump, which still includes imperialist colonials, which boils my piss because most modern English people had nothing to do with that and no power to stop it. When I think of the Scottish People, I don't think of Robert the Bruce, the IRA when I think about the Irish People, so why are all English people lumped together as racist oppressors, it's vile!

Being English can include anybody who wants to be included, for me it's an attitude and a love for the country, which anyone in the world could have if they wanted.

I am crying typing this. I just feel so frustrated by it all. Anyway flame away.

Cornwall can be independent too.

what specific things are you proud of?

What would you call those living in England then Sangria? not snarky genuinely interested btw.

Must be the football team.

That's the only truly solely "English" thing there is, surely?

British Citizens, because that's what they are.

As are the Scots, the Welsh and the Northern Irish.

For the next 24 hrs at least.

It might only be a legal term come about because of lines drawn on a map. But lines have to be drawn somewhere....

But I'm not British Sangria, I feel English.

Well I might feel I'm a teapot, but I'm not one.

areyoureallysure

You missed out the Cornish!

It's true that these things happened and were dreadful. And they have more recent history than how the French treated the early English, and the early English treated the Romano-British, and the Romans treated the Ancient Britons, and the Ancient Britons treated the Neolithic Britons ad nauseum. Oh and the reformationists treated Catholic culture. I totally agree that at various times cultural richness has taken a battering from the English/British govts for political reasons and it totally sucked to be one of those people. But then it totally sucked to be almost anyone who wasn't in the elite anyway.

I think talking about indiginous Britons is pretty dangerous territory given the admixture the British isles has seen and the fact the so-called Celts probably weren't the original settlers anyway. No one has more claim on this country than anyone else, and we need to be careful with our wording while focusing on positive steps for the future.

Did Westminster ever apologise re the Welsh language thing? It's a bit late for the Catholics, but wouldn't be out of place if people are still alive.

what is wrong with being politically correct?

i also hope that some of hte political engagement of hte scottish referendum infects the rest of the UK

fair dos

no i definitely feel british

I was talking about the modern era - when children were beaten for talking their native tongue. My children are now taught Welsh and I am glad of that but when I went to school in the 70s Welsh was still enormously marginalised because of the fact it had been forbidden in schools until 1951.

I am a bit confused because you want to be proud of England but anything negative is condemned to the past and as someone who has been directly affected by English prejudice and supremacy (albeit in a tiny way) I find that quite bizarre and dismissive.

Why is it that the Welsh can be Welsh, the Northern Irish can be Northern Irish, etc. etc. but the English must be ''British Citizens''?

First of all, the English have been telling everybody how they feel, and imposing their opinions, for centuries, so it does not break my heart that you feel a little put-upon right now because people would raise their eyebrows if you festooned your house in English flags.

I am Irish, so obviously my opinions about England and the British Empire are a little biased, but to use the example of another country entirely, America has a flair for unironic, unembarrassed "we are the greatest nation" statements, and it comes off as naive, imperialist, snobbish and, apart from anything else, ill-informed.

I hear what you are saying, but England DOES have a history, and a bit of mea culpa, humbleness or self-awareness, whatever you want to call it, doesn't do any harm in offsetting what would otherwise be that obnoxious "greatest nation" attitude. Just look at it as creating a more nuanced national outlook.

Nothing wrong with it, Petula. But PC is just a label you can be none bigotted and polite, the problem with PC, is for some people that label has current, active implications of guilt. Which rightly or wrongly seem to be directed more at those who identify as English.

I'm immensely proud of lots of things to do with Britain.

Queues, sportsmanship (by and large), the best university system in the world in terms of equality and results. (Check out the list published recently in the Telegraph) the NHS, schools, libraries, innate niceness of most of the people.

fluffy- they can't, technically.

I did mention the Cornish earlier Leggy!

You are lumping us Not your Modern English people have not dictated to anyone

I 100% agree with you. And I am Welsh. YANBU at all.

Good post.

Incidentally, as an Irish person (although I dare not speak for all Irish people) I would never, ever describe a person as British - they would be English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish. They are such very different "nations" that to lump them in together would seem ridiculous to me, although I'm not sure that people living outside the British Isles would make the distinction as keenly as someone living here.

"the english have treated other areas of the british isles appallingly"

As have the Scots.

Of course one immediately then says, "Ah well, Ulster Scots, they're not representative of Scotland", from which one descends to, "Devon English, they're not representative of England." And so on down the plughole.

I agree with posters who say all parts of the United Kingdom have to acknowledge the privileges obtained from participating in the British Empire. In my family, it happens to be the Scots who have personally and tangibly benefitted from it most - and who were active agents of colonisation, not puir wee lackeys of a Westminster government.

I've been at some of the comments about "end of the English empire" going round the last few weeks. Is this collective amnesia or something?