To want to be proud to be English, for the English to have their own independent parliament and to stop my nationality from being landed with shit from 100s of years ago?!

[Marmiteandjamislush]

I know I'll get flamed to bugger for this thread, but you what I don't care! I have heard so much stuff about the English everywhere recently, but nobody asks English people how we feel, what we want. Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho, but what we want, as English people. How we want our country to run. We are always lumped into an amorphous lump, which still includes imperialist colonials, which boils my piss because most modern English people had nothing to do with that and no power to stop it. When I think of the Scottish People, I don't think of Robert the Bruce, the IRA when I think about the Irish People, so why are all English people lumped together as racist oppressors, it's vile!

Being English can include anybody who wants to be included, for me it's an attitude and a love for the country, which anyone in the world could have if they wanted.

I am crying typing this. I just feel so frustrated by it all. Anyway flame away.

As for an apology Leggy I'm not sure there ever was one. A quick web search now hasn't thrown anything up.

Marmiteandjamislush - I meant historically.

the alternative to being politically correct is making other people feel excluded, offended or diminished. why would anyone want to do that?

i think if you are part of a culture that has been trampling all over other cultures for centuries (and i would include some of the english regional cultures among those that have been trampled upon too) then a bit of sensitivity about how you interact with other cultures is the least you can do

x-post

that wasn't political correctness. that was completely dehumanising a vulnerable group by refusing to believe them

I'd like to know what the OP is proud of, but I think she's ignoring me - can someone else ask?

hmm I am English by birth, but the whole "proud to be …." agenda makes no sense to me.

Whether or not there is a good university system, schools etc, I didn't make them. Any more than I oppressed anyone (i hope not anyway!). I think I can only be proud of the things that I've done. My nationality is an accident of birth.

I do feel very fortunate to have been born in England/the UK given the huge advantages I've enjoyed (free education, clean water etc) that so many people in the world do not. But to me that leads to almost the opposite conclusion: what did I do to deserve all this? Absolutely nothing, just be born in England.

So I think it is rather unreasonable to want to declare you are "proud to be" anything. If you want to be proud of yourself, go and do something you can be proud of.

Go on

But I'm not British Sangria, I feel English

I'm another who is neutral to the concept of me being "British". It's like me having brown hair, it just is. I don't see it as a personal achievement or anything to be celebrated (or told off about).

So OP, can you explain your comment? What do you perceive to be the key things that make you feel English rather than British? Why is the way you feel the "English way"?

Just for clarity Chrome do you like the thread as whole or a post? I'm getting lost, lots of posts in short time.

i asked further up janine, but i think it was missed

Janine I have asked. And I am still awaiting an answer.

in fact, what an absolute misunderstanding of what political correctness is about

I'll try Maid but it's hard. I just feel I should be able to identify as the Scottish Irish and Welsh do, but there's a feeling that you can't be English because that's racist and exclusive, whereas British is somehow seen as more palatable.

I'm proud of steam trains.

A Cornish invention, significantly improved by a Scotsman, and developed into one of the greatest modern inventions by a pair of Yorkshiremen.

Fantastic British invention.

Which is how I view so many things - the bad (my Scottish great aunts/uncles went off and did plenty of colonizing themselves...) and the good (e.g. Parliamentary democracy, developed at different stages on both sides of the border and then across the UK as a whole).

areyoureallysure - are you in Wales? Could you local MP ask the PM for one? (Mines a bit of a wet fish...)

By which I mean, anything I'm proud of tends to be a British thing, not an English thing, which is probably another part of why I'm so ambivalent about the English label, quite besides my family and the fact I've lived both sides of the border.

NotYouNaanBread (i love your username, said frequently in my house)

do you base the "english", "scottish", "welsh" etc on place of birth, parents' heritage etc? e.g. my dp was born in england, but his father is scottish and dp supports the scotland rugby team (not the only signifier of scottishness of course ). he describes himself as british because although he has lived most of his time in england, much of his upbringing involved aspects of "scottish culture" - he doesn't feel an allegiance to scotland over england or vice versa

I'm proud of my country, the people who live here, I just feel proud, not guilty and if that's wrong I except I'm wrong, but I won't change.

Petula, PC is just a label, not being bigotted and polite are choice, but PC had political agenda.

The choice are independent of the label, the label means nothing but affects a lot of people. The choices are what matters.

I just feel I should be able to identify as the Scottish Irish and Welsh do, but there's a feeling that you can't be English because that's racist and exclusive, whereas British is somehow seen as more palatable

But that is addressing what you feel is appropriate to express in public.

How do you feel? What is feeling English and how is it different to feeling British?

Still not really clear what you're proud of, to be honest. All that's coming across is that you're proud (or want to be proud).

Marmiteandjamislush - but you DO. There is a very specific cultural identity that the English have, that is not informed by skinheads or Farage or any other negative connotations. It's a bit twee and nostalgic, admittedly, but then so is the (idealised) cultural identity of the Irish, Scottish and Welsh.

There is a more militant/agressive and less palatable side to it, just as there is in Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, but it's a bit "woe is me" and pretty inaccurate to say that English identity is under attack. Unless you have been drinking in what the Daily Mail has been saying all these years, of course.

"It would also be nice to be able to fly the flag of my country without people calling me a racist bnp supporter"

"That's something you need to take up with the BNP, surely. They're the ones that hijacked it.......

To me Maid, that yearning for public acceptance and not getting it, but wanting is the feeling of being English. I think, but as I said it's hard.

And I do find it I bit strange to be proud of being born in a particular place. It's a matter of chance, surely, not something to be proud of. Just a thing.

It's how I feel though, Not Your and the identity you speak of is the old fashioned 'bad old days' Englishness, not modern Englishness. Whilst that exists we can't move forward