Adorable child didn't say please once.

[Kingfisherfly]

I was out with a group yesterday. All adults I know by varying degrees, except for the 8yo of one couple who had her much later in life than the rest of us. Were all in our 50s/60s.

I've seen this child around but never really talked to her before. She's often at "adult" events and is generally smiley and well behaves, occupies herself with an ipad or talks to the adults.

During the course of the afternoon she was often asked would you like drink/ice cream/food and she'd answer the question politely enough, except she never said please. What would you like to drink...J2O.

For me the please is just a reflex and I had to bite my tongue not to add it for her! Do modern parents not do that? Even when speaking to her paremts she wasn't reminded. Her parents did largely leave her to it but she was a credit to them apart from that one thing, that really stood out in it's absence for me.

Oh please do share the name of the book- I'm intrigued 😊

It’s called the elephant and the bad baby.
illustrated by the wonderful Raymond Briggs.

Good manners are not performative.

In other news, on Mumsnet, while saying please and thank you are paramount, the following things seem perfectly acceptable:

• Referring to children as “little shits”, sometimes one’s own children.
• Admitting to giving your children the finger, while their backs are turned.
• Being rude to staff/sales people who are doing their job in some unwanted way, for example by upselling, for which they are likely to say please and thank you.
• Mumsnetters swear with reckless abandon.
• The Mumsnet fury when a waiter asks politely “is everything all right?”. There’s a reason they do this: to cover themselves, to avert complaints about waiters not reading customers’ minds when it comes to if something is wrong with the food, or if extra sauces are wanted. “AIBU that the waitress should have known I wanted ketchup?”
• Ganging up on people who ask an innocent question, with sarcastic replies such as “what’s Google for?”.
• Mocking people who go to church with phrases such as “imaginary friend”, “deluded”, “otherwise intelligent”.

I hardly think many Mumsnetters are in a position to preach politeness. And while children might be drilled in saying please and thank you, I think they notice when they see adults failing to do it, and who hasn’t heard a child saying “but I said ‘please!’?

Politeness is often extremely performative, even if many people don’t want to admit it.

I suspect quite a few of the 'good manners are performative' crowd are also of the 'a gift should be freely given with no expectation of anything in return' ilk, and don't teach their children to say thanks for gifts either...

Do modern parents not do that?

No they don't. None of them. You've cracked it - every parent of every single child born in the last 10 years or so, anywhere in the world, has decided not to teach their children to say please and thank you. It's amazing really when you think about it. Personally I think something should be done.

How would using Please be redundant? What would the context be?
(Trying to think of examples here)

I feel like most of the time please is unnecessary. You can say most things without the word please and it can still be polite if you have a polite tone and say thank you. Again, if do try to remeebr to use the word please when in the UK. But when I forget (we don't have that word in my native language) I still don't feel like I am being rude.

Scandanavian?

Oh, interesting. ✅
I agree tone makes a difference.
Perception is important, though.
If it is common to say it, then it should be said, I think.

I agree it can be performative and seem so to people from other cultures-
if you say 'thank you so much' when someone performs a simple transaction. what are you going to say when you are truly grateful?
nevertheless, it is required in British culture but the way people obsess over it and try to teach children to parrot phrases drives me mad
eg
toddler indicates that they would like a biscuit
adult holds biscuit in sight but out of reach, saying "say 'ta', say 'ta'. 'ta', 'ta"
...and the toddler becomes confused and upset

also
child politely asks for something, but without saying please-
adult 'what's the magic word?'
again; leaving the child confused

its actually very simple to teach children to say please and thank you
you just have to say it yourself, including to them
they will pick it up just like they pick up other language

Q. Would you like a biscuit?

A: Yes.
B: Yes, please.

B is more polite. A l, whilst it answers the question, sounds more demanding. 🤷

its not demanding though-
'give me a biscuit!' is demanding
replying that yes, you would like a biscuit when you have been offered one, isn't demanding, its just failing to observe a social convention

YADNBU
It’s a shame for her as she will come across as very ignorant or entitled.
Basic manners cost nothing.

You have just made me laugh out loud and choke on my apple!

There was an old story about a young French diplomat who complained to his seniors that the etiquette and overt politeness was unnecessary and just hot air. His senior responded that it is only air in tyres, but it gets you over the bumps.