Adorable child didn't say please once.

[Kingfisherfly]

I was out with a group yesterday. All adults I know by varying degrees, except for the 8yo of one couple who had her much later in life than the rest of us. Were all in our 50s/60s.

I've seen this child around but never really talked to her before. She's often at "adult" events and is generally smiley and well behaves, occupies herself with an ipad or talks to the adults.

During the course of the afternoon she was often asked would you like drink/ice cream/food and she'd answer the question politely enough, except she never said please. What would you like to drink...J2O.

For me the please is just a reflex and I had to bite my tongue not to add it for her! Do modern parents not do that? Even when speaking to her paremts she wasn't reminded. Her parents did largely leave her to it but she was a credit to them apart from that one thing, that really stood out in it's absence for me.

I'm with the OP in this may be small things to say but the lack of them but actually has a disproportionate impact.

Good social etiquette makes a difference.

There's also a certain undertone of entitlement shown in their lack.

Many times England will have different cultural elements when it comes to etiquette than, say, Scotland so no I don’t mean British.

I didn’t know I was being performative when I said please and thanks. Do you not use these words?

Here's another thing that's part of the human condition: learning to put up with boredom. Learning that sometimes we have to do things we don't really want to because it's important to other family members or friends. More important social skills. It's good for children to grow up with confidence and to learn to be assertive when appropriate, but they also need to grasp that the world does not revolve around them.

When it comes to saying please and thank you, I would be surprised to learn there is a noticeable difference between the various parts of the UK. (I'm Scottish and I've lived most of my life in England.)

I'd rather have 10 of these children at an adult event, than 1 child running around being a noisy little sod!!
@Kingfisherfly just enjoy the day instead of parenting someone else's kiddie!

I judge anyone that doesn't say please or thankyou.

With respect, if you're working with 4 and 5yo I'd suggest learning a bit more about typical child development, because it's completely normal for children of that age not to consistently say please or thank you. They're still developing social awareness, impulse control and habits, which is why they need frequent reminders.

The fact that a reception aged child says "I'm thirsty" and expects an adult to infer they want a drink is also entirely normal developmentally.

What I find uncomfortable is the implication that parents aren't teaching manners and that children are somehow learning them from you instead. In my experience, virtually every parent encourages good manners. The fact that 4 and 5yos don't apply them consistently isn't evidence of parental failure, it's evidence that they're 4 and 5.

You may look back on the assumption that you're succeeding where parents are failing and cringe a little.

We don’t live in the UK. He does say it. But when asked or told to, he’s less likely. So, left to his own devices he understands all of the above himself, and now uses both more often.

What an odd thing to say. They are standards of politeness and respect way wouldn't you want your child to have them when they will make them more agreeable in society.

There's also a certain undertone of entitlement shown in their lack.

Christ almighty were talking about an 8yo child who was otherwise "adorable" - OP said that she is often at "adult" events and is generally smiley and well behaves, occupies herself with an ipad or talks to the adults.

I'm surprised no one has called her a "little madam" yet or have I missed that?!

I agree with you. My DCs have to sometimes go places they would rather avoid. Thank you for your considerate reply.

In OPs situation I would have noticed how well the 8 year old behaved and the lack of please's and thank you's would not have been jarring enough for me to have noticed let alone start a thread about.

Rumpeta rumpeta rumpeta!

Yes but my point was they will often go through phases of doing it automatically and others when they don't and need to be reminded. It's not a moral failing when they forget, on either the parent's part or the child's.

Please and thank you costs nothing and should be automatic.

I loath this sort of behaviour. I would not be getting them anything without them asking for it nicely.

🤣 love it! I wonder how many people will get the reference! One of my favourites!

Good grief when did good manners become performative? Good manners help society run smoothly and should be drummed into children from an early age. Then we might not have so many spoilt narcissist brats who think the world revolves around them.

If it’s not really culturally expected then I think that’s a bit different, would he still show manners in a different way or with different wording?

I think no matter where you live in the world it must be rude to accept a gift or be offered hospitality and not show gratitude.

My DP isn’t English and when he first moved here he didn’t always remember to say please but he always smiled and managed to look happy and grateful to receive something and maybe said something like “that’s very kind of you”.
He realised the importance of manners pretty quickly though and finds it rude if you hold a door open for someone or offer help in some way and it’s not acknowledged with a thank you.

I think it’s a way of showing someone that you appreciate them and children need to learn that early or even their own peers will pick up on it and find it rude because it’s what’s expected by the majority.

I suppose if she spends a lot of time with adults maybe she’s modelled her etiquette on adult exchanges. I don’t think adults say please and thank you at every exchange…
It’s an interesting observation op.

It's not.
Lots of cultures just dont say please/thank you as much and think a polite tone is sufficient. Not doing something exactly as you thinkit should be done doesnt mean its wrong!

Like a pp id far prefer a child who was well behaved and pleasant who just forgot one word rather than one who was annoying, whiny and rude but technically said "please".

Also if out with a big group of friends id like to think id have more interesting things to concentrate on than the manners of one child!

Sounds like adding please and thank you hasn't been instilled as a non negotiable. I think it's the norm to try and get this to be standard response. However, it is possible to be polite without those exact words. It sounds very much like this child knows how to behave very well so it should just be relatively easy for the parents to pick up on. Perhaps you could have gently coaxed a please or thank you OP.

As regards those claiming there's something odd about an 8 year old coming to an adult event and being able to behave. I very much had one of those when DS was that age. Praps it's an only child thing. I don't know why anyone would feel sorry for a child in those circumstances or think they would be bored. When DS was 10 we went to a birthday event, he spent ages talking to the local MP and definitely wasn't bored.

How have you extrapolated from one interaction with an otherwise very well behaved 8yo that we have "so many spoilt narcissist brats who think the world revolves around them"? Talk about catastrophising. You know there are lots of cultures in the world where it's not customary to use please and thank you? Are they all spoilt narcissist brats who think the world revolves around them?

I would say the rudeness on this thread far outweighs one little girl whose only mistake was not to say "please."

He does say it. I said that we don’t expect it. Like your husband, he learned that it’s a good communication tool to have, regarding manners.

Another example of standards slipping in society. I would class this the same as people wearing pyjamas to the supermarket or dropping litter and would definitely judge the parenting. Children should be taught basic manners. To not bother does them no favours in the long run.